No Smoking In The UK..... !!!

[midimart]

Wooowwww Lee.

I take it that your a none smoker and have a great passion to encourage others to stop.

Talk about being blunt and getting straight to the point.

But thats what this board is for. Lets have some more heated arguments, you can let your feelings out here, no one will take offense. You will not get banned for making a point, but like others..... I believe both sides have valid arguments.

Nice one Lee..... Lets see the reaction to that...!!!

----

[geraint]

Thanks Lee for the information that we have been given from many sources.
I am actually going to a smoking cessation clinic tomorrow, but by my own choice.
That is the important thing, it is my choice, not the choice of Holier than thou do gooders who want do dictate what I do with MY life and MY lungs.
If I manage to stop my habit, all well and good, but if I dont, I am not going to be dictated to by the very people who have benifited from the tax I have paid on my cigarettes (and dont tell me that this has only paid the health costs of smokers because that is untrue).
We are allegedly a democratic society, so wheres the democracy in this blatant infringement of millions of peoples human rights.

[bri]

Strewth Lee.
Well thought out, well presented and very strong views. I don't smoke, but I've always (as a musician) worked in venues where people do. I can't say it ever bothered me and I can't say it does now, but what DOES bother me is when local councils are stopping their workers from smoking OUTSIDE; or does smoke pollute the outside, fresh air as well? I would've thought there was enough fresh air for people to smoke outside and for non-smokers to walk by without risk.
Who is infringing on whose human rights? I don't know, but I can honestly say smokers don't bother me. Another argument I know, but I don't know of any smokers who will mug you for their gay money, or of any drinkers who will mug you for their drinks money, but drug users?

Bri

[keeeko]

Wow Lee, talk about a reprimand.

You wouldn't happen to be a reformed smoker would you?

I must say you did go to a lot of trouble to shoot me down. I hope you feel better now.......

Thank you for backing me up geraint and bri. The main thing that I was trying to say was that we are all free to do what we want (within reason) and no one should be able to take that away. We all have choices and it is my choice to smoke, I may give up one day, but that is also my choice. I don't mind not smoking in enclosed areas, that dosen't bother me. I also have 11 grandchildren and I DO NOT SMOKE AROUND THEM!!!!!!!

Maybe you think a smoker can't be a responsible person, think again my friend!!!!!!!

Jan

[keeeko]

Sorry Glenn, I missed your reply. I happened to see lee's reply first and saw red............

Thanks for backing me up...

Jan

[FoothillsSound]

Jan, Lee & rest of posters,

Thanx for your input. And, as always, thanx to Glenn, Pat, & rest of staff for providing the forum.

When I made my 1st post on this topic, I reference'd Jan's post in regard to the ban on smoking in one's personal conveyance. I saw nothing regarding the vehicle having children as passengers. I also asked if anyone could tell me the reasoning behind this part of the legislation.

In the presented context, it appeared to me that if a patron at a club went to his car for a smoke, he could be cited. If this is the case, I stand by my observations. If not, I still stand by them. Let me present the following scenario:

I have my equipment set up in a club for 1 week gig. I take my daughter on over to the club on my Harley during the day for a rehearsal. Band takes a break, Shannon & I go outside and sit on the bike while I SMOKE...

This may seem a far-fetched example. Yet, in my case, it's very realistic. I'm outside, yet in/on my personal vehicle. My daughter is with me. With the input I have from this forum, it appears I would be in violation of the proposed ban.

Whether in regard to smoking, the raising of one's children, or any other of a myriad of proposed or enacted legislation, there comes a point where governments should butt out and stop infringing on their citizen's personal liberty.

Alan

P.S. My children are now both non-smoking adults. My daughter has been in New Zealand for 10 months and loves the place and it's people. I go outside or to the garage to smoke when I'm at my own home, by personal CHOICE.

[bri]

Over here in England, they call us "the Nanny State" on the news. The latest is that ads during children's progs aren't allowed to show junk food adverts, which I suppose means MacDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, Cap'n Birds Eye (fish fingers, etc.). Will this stop the parents taking their children out for a MacDonalds and what have you? Why do I not believe it will? Of course, there are those who believe all this is to cut down on expenditure for children's progs. Sorry, but is this not also butting into their "human rights"? Ooohh, mustn't go there!!!
If the govt. was really as concerned as it claims to be over smoking, it would stop ALL imports of tobacco. If it was really as concerned as it claims to be over junk food, it would close ALL MacDonalds etc. down AND stop the manufacture of ALL junk food. YEAH, I just saw a pig fly by the window.
Well that's my little rant over with.
See y'all
Bri

[guilty]

We've got the same pigs flying past our windows down here.

[Emerald Midi]

As I have said before I do not smoke myself but think those who do should at least have some concessions. Here in Ireland before the ban was introduced some publicans wanted more time to explore the possibility of having super strong extractors and additional space for punters who take the dreaded weed, but these ideas were seen as impracticable by the government and the ban went ahead.

I would have been quite happy to see such a compromise, smokers in one section, non-smokers in another seems fair to me.

One of the reasons mentioned at the time not to adopt either of these measures was that those pubs and restaurants and hotels that couldn't afford to set up such places would lose out - all the smokers would simply go to a pub where they could smoke.

Interesting debate lads/lassies/those who are not sure. Keep it up!

[keeeko]

Hey Bri and Guilty, we have the same pigs here......

I suppose it all boils down to the good and bad. The good are the responsible smokers, who are aware of others that don't smoke and act accordingly......then you have the bad smokers, who don't give a @*&$ about others. They are the ones spoiling it for all......

As I said before I smoke (my decision) but I am always aware of others that don't smoke and act accordingly (my decision). I don't like smoke blowing in my face and the smell of dirty ashtrays either.

Don't you think that it would be better to try and heal the world rather than pick on smokers?

Jan

[EDIT] = Sorry Jan, I've edited one word of your post, but I think your meaning is still there - Please don't forget this forum is open to minors too.

[lee]

Due to a busy gigging schedule and much travelling I have not been able to read or respond to your posts or messages this past while.

Let me clarify a few things up front. I am a former smoker. I started smoking as a kid in school but fortunately came to the realization in my 20s that this thing was as dangerous as everybody was saying, so I quit.

Now I do feel sorry for those of you who are still hooked on this debilitating habit and wish you well as you try to give it up but to say you choose to smoke is preposterous. No person in their right mind makes a conscious decision to start smoking because of some heath benefits and the vast majority of smokers started on their road of misery as kids due to peer pressure, remaining hooked throughout their lives. But the more sensible ones gave up when confronted with the facts.

It is possible to quit. I did. Many people do, and do it successfully all the time. Some fail, and it's those, the failures, who usually come out with such ludicrous comments as, “I chose to smoke,” “my choice,” and so on.

I accept that there are a few misguided souls who genuinely believe they have made a sensible lifestyle choice when they decided to the take up the habit, or who, even when faced with overwhelming statistics later on during their smoking life, still chose to continue destroying their lungs, but the great majority of them know full well that they are deluding themselves in a desperate, hopeless attempt to justify their powerlessness to quit.

Now rest assured I am not having a go at any smoker, individually or personally. Smokers, whether they know it or not, are just victims of a multi billion dollar cigarette industry and their never ending efforts to glamorize the product. But it is my opinion that cigarettes should be outlawed completely, a full and total world wide ban. Such a move would ensure future generations would not suffer needlessly for the sake of big profits.

Yes, the less wise among you (smokers) do at the moment have the right to smoke yourselves to death, but don’t fool yourselves in to thinking your selfish actions do not effect others.

There are those who smoke with consideration, who do not light up near their kids, or around those who don’t wish to share their nicotine addiction. These smokers, who are fortunately becoming more and more common, deserve every respect for their efforts.

But those smokers who are not as considerate ought to be ashamed of themselves and can only be pitied and prayed for in the hope they will one day see the errors of their ways.

As for healing the world goes, Jan, did you know that for every smoker who quits 10 lives are saved? Like it or not when you smoke around someone you are killing them also. What are you doing about healing the world.

Poor smokers is right. They are poor in pocket because of the price they pay for a pack, but more importantly poor in heath because of their habit.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee

[EDIT] - I have had to edit just one word from your post Lee, just bear in mind we have junior members.... Thank you.

[midimart]

Hi again Lee....

I see you have very powerful issues on this subject, and good for you too. I read your posts and they are placed with passion, and know all the ins and outs of good and bad myself.

Just a tiny little thing, remember the forum etiquette, junior members are reading your replies too. By all means get your shirt off, let the members do battle and fight verbally. But think of the wording you place....

Thank you my friend.

[Steptoe]

steptoe said:

How is Keith Richards going to get on? No smoking on stage too?

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/5290278.stm

[midimart]

I think Keith can pay both fines and still have a little change from the gig...... ;D

But I agree with the lady - If he breaks the law, then he should be made to pay the price.

Fame is no exception.

[nevnbron]

It's kinda like being cruel to be kind. They know that you'll kick and scream and bitch about it for a while - civil liberties - personal choice - blah blah blah - but in the end many will get to the point where they will just give it up. I used to smoke 25 a day (count 'em 25) and so I do know how hard it is to give up, but it can be done. Look, it's a little stick that controls your life. Take back control for yourself. This debate was never really about the law but about one's personal feelings. I for one never knew how much I stank, and for that reason alone I would urge anyone to fling the pack away today. Non smoking veues here in South Australia are going gangbusters so don't fret for gigs, it's brought a whole new demograpgic into the mix, and when the die-hards cave in and get with the program things will be better for everyone - Nev

[pmalcolm]

Isn't alcohol just as dangerous? I never heard of anyone being killed by a smoking driver! Don't alcohol related illnesses cost the health service as much? Why is it promoted in commercials and in the media so much? Ok, so I'm slightly off topic but I just think that the government can be blinkered in their outlook. I'm a smoker and have no objections to the ban providing it never affects my home space (I live alone) but even that has recently threatened to come under attack due to neighbours complaining about smelling smoke from next door!

The law is the law but sometimes it can be an ass!

[Steptoe]

It's funny how the smokers always try to shift the problem over to something else "Oh what about all the Drinkers etc" Well I've never heard of any one getting drunk or Liver disease or cancer or any of the multitude of diseases that go with cigarettes standing next to a drinker!

Alcohol abuse is definately a major problem and does affect a great deal of people directly and indirectly as does smoking and passive smoking!

Lets not make a competition out of which is the worst!

[pmalcolm]

Competition? Please! It's called debate. Your second paragraph is exactly the point I was trying to make and, if you care to read my comments fully, I have NO objections to the ban of smoking in public places. I am intrigued as to the number of diseases that are allegedly caused by passive smoking. I suppose the rest of the pollution generated by traffic and industry could not be held even in part responsible for some of the blame.

[steveb]

Hi everyone,

I am touring around Europe at the moment eg, London, Paris, Paris, Amsterdam, Munich, Cologne and one of the things that I am not used to in Australia is people smoking in restaurants while people are eating and also in all the beer halls, it really put me off going to places like that as it hard for me as I quite smoking a long time ago.

A few years ago back home when we would be out with friends at a dinner, they would at least ask if we would mind if they had a cigarette after we had finished eating, now-days they don't ask they just automatically go outside.

It really opens your mind when you see how other people do things in other countries

[Steptoe]

G'day Steve

Guess I won't be seeing you down at Campbelltown RSL this weekend??

Have a great trip and watch out for those smoking drivers.

Cheers
John