No Smoking In The UK..... !!!

[Emerald Midi]

Jimmy said:

The sad thing is that some folk still don't believe that smoking affects your health and those around you or they simply just don't care.

Unfortunately this so very true. on both counts. There are those who totally ignore the incredibly vast amount of evidence there is available - and those who couldn't careless.

What is even worse is when you see parents insisting upon smoking around their babies. Madness, utter madness.

But let's not forget there are some very sensible smokers around who have understanding about the dangers of passive smoking.

[ccladdaghh]

Hi MidiMart,

Please extend my sincere wishes for your Mom and Dad for a Wonderful Diamond Anniversary. At a time which should be of celebration only, it sounds like a very difficult time for you and your family as your Mom's health is declining. I wish your mom, you and your family strength and courage as the days go by, and I wish I could snap my fingers and make it all better for you, and eveyone else (ahhhh, if only that could be true .... ) because I know how you feel.

As for my Mom, she passed on in 1998 at age 57. Too young and a terrible loss for our family. But she said she had no regrets, and neither to we. She was loved by all whom had the luxury & honour to meet her (she was an angel). As for her smoking, she didn't have any other vices in her life (no alcohol allowed due to very strong medications she needed to take for other issues)... so we did not give her any grief when she wanted to continue smoking. I don't think the doc actually thought she would not make it when he made the comment about telling her to continue to smoke... but then who knows. It's the outcome that tell sthe end story. M.M., thanks for your concerns and warm thoughts for me ... She was my best friend and so I would never have denied her anything in life - egad, even smoking her cigarettes.

Yes, I agree, in our parents' time, smoking was acceptable, and very encouraged (especially by one teen to another.) Nowadays, even my son and his friends don't smoke. They have been taught so much in school about the hazards of smoking (cigarettes ... wacky-tobacky ... or even alcohol etc.) And that makes us as their parents very happy! I hope these kids of today keep away from these vices and just enjoy life to the max!!

Themd21 & Emerald Midi, You have both brought up such good points. I keep hoping that it won't be just the kids & teens who are learning the dangers of smoking... but the adults as well. But some habits are harder to break, and smoking is definitely one of them (Mom told me so!) I have never been a smoker, so I can honestly say I have no idea of the hardships of quitting. And my hat's off to all of you who have tried and conquered. That is one very tough feat ... from what other ex-smokers have told me. Again, if only we could snap our fingers and help all the rest... but only time, patience and a will to perservere - and mega support from the rest of us ... will tell.

Take care all....
Rose :-)

[Emerald Midi]

Rose said:

As for my Mom, she passed on in 1998 at age 57.

A young age to pass away. my sympathies on your loss. My own father died in 2002, age 68 from a heart attack.

[ian]

Hi.
Just to let you know the total smoking ban in Scotland is seriously affecting the attendances in social clubs and entertainment venues with quite a few on the brink of closure as there are not enough customers to justify carrying on.
Even in my own workplace they have now introduced no smoking in your own car in the car park.

[Emerald Midi]

ian said:

Hi.
Just to let you know the total smoking ban in Scotland is seriously affecting the attendances in social clubs and entertainment venues with quite a few on the brink of closure as there are not enough customers to justify carrying on.
Even in my own workplace they have now introduced no smoking in your own car in the car park.

Ian, this approach that has been implemented in Scotland is a major step forward to helping smokers quit. Yes initially business will suffer but in the long run the work place will be a much safer place for all concerned.

I did a gig last night here in Ireland where smoking has been band nearly two years and the pub was packed!

And in time the venues in Scotland will be the same.

This new law has to be given a chance to work. Just imagine the long term benefits for the whole nation.

[rogerb]

Hi All,
I live and gig here in Cyprus where at this time of year all my venues are outside so smoking is not so big an issue. However, once we move back indoors for the cooler winter months, it is a case of coming home from gigs reeking of secondhand smoke (I finally managed to quit my 20 a day habit about 25 years ago) and to be honest I find the smell quite offensive now.
Unlike a lot of other countries the government here have not voiced any plans for an enforced ban in public places. Just a thought - isn't have a no smoking section in a restaurant a bit like having a no peeing section in a swimming pool? Good luck to any one trying to give up - you will honestly feel so much better if you can.

[sidneybubbles]

I agree with Emerald Midi, the ban is a good thing but will take a while to establish itself.
I think initially there will be a downturn in attendences in pubs and clubs but like all things once the novelty wears off people will come back and everyone will wonder what the fuss was all about.

[rockabilly]

Hi - Well we are just having a new ;aw going through in south Australia (as well as the existing oub smoking bans that have been in force for around 5 years).............. no smoking in the car if there are kids in the car. seems there is going to be a bit of a dilemma over who is going to enforce it as the Police say this is a civil issue and they have enough to do (speeding tickets etc!). Looks like the smokers are under ever increasing pressure to quit, even though the tax loss would be a pain to the Government.......... Me - Yep I smoke - gave it up for about an hour before lighting up the next one . Don't have a problem with pubs, clubs etc. and I hate the smell of full ashtrays.

[lennon]

Hi everyone, just thought I would put my views forward re: smoking ban. I have played in pubs and clubs for more years than I would like to own up to. When I started out (I think 78RPM records were still available)!!!, it seemed to be the accepted norm that you would go out for a pint (yes, ladies, some of you DO drink pints) and a gay, meet your mates and generally have a good time. Over the years, I have cut down on the pub gigs (not so young anymore) and concentrated on club venues. I have noticed a general down trend in attendance figures, and talking to many club stewards/committee people, they think the same. Luckily, Bristol has not imposed a total smoking ban (yet), but I think smoking folks aren't going to these kind of places anymore because they feel intimidated or given route planners to Coventry. I myself partake in opening a packet of twenty when I get to a gig, helps me relax. What happens when clubs stop acts from smoking, will they only book non smokers or will there be clauses in contracts that state "If you smoke in our club, you don't get paid". Any other smoking guitar players think the same? would love to hear other views.
Regards. Lennon

[FoothillsSound]

As a continually "attempting to stop" smoker, I certainly won't debate the health concerns of tobacco use or 2nd hand exposure.

As a supporter of democracy, I will not challenge regulation in favour of the majority.

However, I feel there is such a thing as individual liberty as well. Perhaps this is a 'Yank" thing, but if there was an attempt to pass laws here in the U.S. banning smoking in one's personal auto, I think I'd be raising quite the ruckus.

Can anyone tell me the reasoning behind this part of the legislation? Does anyone else, smoker or non-, see this particular ban as invasive?

Thanx in advance for your responses and to MM for providing the forum,
Alan

[sixstringbing]

Hey Guys
My experiences with the smoking thing is that as many of us gig some of the venues I play in have very poor extaction systems the result being that at least once a week my eyes sting out of my head I take a shower when I come home because the smoke is reminiscent of the smog in London during the fifties so while smokers have every right to smoke I feel it is down to the Publicans and Breweries to provide a safe drinking and working environment for all concerned a special area would be great offering the freedom 2 smokers to enjoy and take in the entertainment as well rather than having to be left outsider left feeling aggrieved

[Steptoe]

How is Keith Richards going to get on? No smoking on stage too?

[doodie]

spike said:

I know all the do's and don't about smoking, and that it's not good for your health etc etc so no preaching.

The UK government have voted to place a total ban on smoking in pubs and clubs, with no exception!! (Ireland and Scotland already have this law)

I just wondered what the outcome will be...... To the best of my knowledge, the biggest revenue of tax for the UK government is - Alcohol - Tobacco - Fuel. So if a total ban on smoking (comes into force March 2007) is in effect. Where will the government gain it's most lucrative taxes from.

I can see people either not going out (can't smoke) or people giving up (good thing for health), but one way or another, one will cease...... Therefor a drop in taxes. Where will the government Levi the taxes to fulfill this deforcite...... This I can see as being the biggest problem.

All my life I have been in pubs, clubs, bars etc... With lots of smoke, it not only adds to the atmosphere, it is also a British tradition.

Last Saturday, I went for a stroll around a small town near where I live and went into about 4 public houses. Two of these public houses already have a room cordoned off for None Smokers (this would be a better idea), the bar itself was crowded, 3 - 4 deep at the bar (quite busy pubs), but there was NO-ONE in the none smoking area...... !!!!

So to my point, as far as I know, all this none smoking in public bars etc, came from just one woman - griping on about passive smoking.

Can I just point out that I to am a None Smoker.... But I for one do not agree with the UK government THIS TIME..... Tony (Bad Boy) Blair has lost my vote....!!!

SAME HERE IN CAPE BRETON ISLAND NO SMOKING IN TAVERNS

[stivy]

Great comments folks!

I myself smoke, and alls I can say is "Where are all the non-smokers and do gooders going to come from to fill my local pub when it's introduced?
It is a well known fact that there are more people who go out for a drink to enjoy themselves smoke.
This ban on smoking won't be very popular for the non-smokers when their petrol bills start soaring and income & VAT tax goes up, but most of all, once the price of a pint goes soaring because of it, they won't even bother going out at all. At the moment we smokers pay tax for our habit. If we all stop smoking we ALL have to pay the tax!

As for entertainment - This will suffer in a VERY VERY BIG WAY.
I've toured round the country for years and abroad so I do have an idea about gigging all over the UK as a whole. Think back to when all the pits closed. I could go down South Wales every couple of months for a ten day run. Once the mines closed all those communities lost their clubs and pubs simply because the miners were their biggest source of income. This had the knock on effect to my work. I was lucky to get down there twice a year if I was lucky! The same happened in Yorkshire. Some of these clubs were huge. 1000 seaters in some areas!

I think the smoking ban may have a similar effect except this time it affects the country as a whole.
The whole country has gone completely bonkers anyway. Can't do this, can't do that. More CCTV than ALL the countries in Europe added together. You can't smack your kids. Police are powerless to do anything (except usually arrest the victim) etc..etc.......

I could blabber on all day but there ya go. I'll just end by asking:- Have you read 1984 by George Orwell? I think Mr Blair has. Don't worry folks anyway. They'll soon come out for a tax on fresh air!!!

Remember - Big Brother Is Watching You!!!

Regards
Stivy

[thingyy]

Smoking was banned in clubs,pubs and cafes etc 2 years ago in New Zealand. Noticed a large drop off of punters initially untill smoking areas were erected outside only 3 walls though. During the winter months there are fewer punters as its too cold to go outside for a smoke. I am a smoker but can take it or leave it at gigs. Mind you my van gets pretty foggy on the way home.

[jimthejanny]

have to say that we up in scotland have had the ban since the spring.im a smoker myself and when your playing you see the punters coming and going all night so its quite hard to hold a crowd.also what i have noticed that clubs and pubs up here are making more of an effort to bring in punters so more places are puting on live entertainment,so it could have a plus side.

[keeeko]

I'm with you rockabilly. I just heard about the new law "not smoking in the car with kids" today. I am in NSW. I can't see how they can enforce it, maybe they pick you up for speeding or a parking offence and slap you with the not smoking in the car with kids. I have been a smoker for around 40 years, now I roll my own. I know it is bad for me, and my Doctor told me I have lost 1/3 of my lung capacity, BUT, I am only killing myself. I don't believe in passive smoking, I believe in drunks getting into cars and killing other people. Why not take more of an interest in what they are doing and a little less interest in smokers.
I definately agree with FoothillsSound. It's not just a "Yank" thing, it's a "human" thing, and I think it is very invasive!!
Sorry folks this is my opinion.
Jan

[midimart]

No need to apologies keeeko.... This is why this debate was set up. You can declare war if you like, but no bad or offensive way. (how can one declare war being none offensive---?) But you know what I mean.

It's good to here from one that does smoke as most of the postings are from none smokers. You make your point, you are in control of your own destiny. I say if one smokes and has the knowledge of what it "MIGHT" do to you and understands the consequences, then that individual does what he/she likes.

As for not smoking in the car, this law has not been undertaken over here "YET", I emphasize "YET" as I can see it coming. What anyone does in their privacy of their own home/car/domain is up to themselves.....

Thanks keeeko for giving us the point on the other side of the coin.....

[geraint]

Well said keeeko,
Here in Wales the no smoking in public places comes in in April Next Year, and I'm dreading it.
Surely with the technology in Air Conditioning nowadays, this should not be necessary. I respect non-smokers rights, but where are ours as smokers.
Im looking forward to the cigarette police catching me next year.

[lee]

I have been a smoker for around 40 years, now I roll my own.

40 years is a long time. Many smokers never get to to say they have smoked this long.

I know it is bad for me, and my Doctor told me I have lost 1/3 of my lung capacity, BUT, I am only killing myself.

Yeah, sure, that's right - you are just killing yourself. Have you thought for a minute about the pain and hurt your untimely death might cause those you have left behind?

I don't believe in passive smoking,

If by this you mean you don't believe that passive smoking hurts other people as well as those who actually smoke then I have to say you are very much living in denial. The amount of evidence that show the harmful effects caused by passive smoking is simply overwhelming.

I believe in drunks getting into cars and killing other people. Why not take more of an interest in what they are doing and a little less interest in smokers.

Drink driving is a separate issue which is also condemned by right thinking people. However as this is a seperate issue I fail to see how mentioning abuse of alcohol supports your argument. Two wrongs, etc.

I definately agree with FoothillsSound. It's not just a "Yank" thing, it's a "human" thing, and I think it is very invasive!!

When all else fails blame the "Yanks"

Invasive! If you believe this you clearly have little concern for the health of others, especially children. Children have no choice other than to breath in the same smoke as their selfish smoking parents. Granted many parents who smoke have more sense and do not light up in the company of their kids. But there are others who are well aware of the consequences of such reckless action but still insist on smoking when in the company of kids.

Inexcusable behaviour. And it is because of these parents such laws have to be brought in.

Smokers are unfortunately literally a dieing breed. They don't need to be.

Sorry folks this is my opinion.

Which you are entitled to

Below are some smoking facts from a British site.

www.ash.org.uk/html/factsheets/html/basic01.html

. Tobacco was introduced to Europe from the New World at the end of the fifteenth century. Smoking spread rapidly and was long regarded as having medicinal value. It was not until the 20th century, however, that smoking became a mass habit and not until the 1950’s that the dangers of smoking were firmly established.


· About 12 million adults in Great Britain smoke cigarettes - 26% of men and 23% of women. In 1974, 51% of men and 41% of women smoked cigarettes - nearly half the adult population of Britain. Now one-quarter smoke but the decline in recent years has been heavily concentrated in older age groups: i.e., almost as many young people are taking up smoking but more established smokers are quitting.


· Adult smoking rates vary only slightly between different parts of the country, as defined by the Government Office Regions. For example, in the East of England 24% of people smoke, in the North West, 28%. In Scotland 25% of the population smokes; in Wales the prevalence is 23%.


· Smoking is highest among those aged 20-24: 36% of men and 29% women in this age group smoke. Among older age groups prevalence gradually declines with the lowest smoking rate among people aged 60 and over: 14% smoke in this age group. This reflects the fact that many former smokers will have stopped in middle age and around one quarter of smokers die before reaching retirement age.


· More than 80% of smokers take up the habit as teenagers.


· In the United Kingdom about 450 children start smoking every day.


· In England about one fifth of Britain's 15 year-olds – 16% of boys and 25% of girls - are regular smokers - despite the fact that it is illegal to sell cigarettes to children aged under16.


· Men and women in manual socio-economic groups are more likely to smoke than people in non-manual occupations. 20% of men and 17% of women in the professional and managerial groups smoke compared with 32% of men and 30% of women in routine and manual groups.


· People do give up - 20% of women and 28% of men are ex-smokers. Surveys show that about 70% of current smokers would like to give up altogether.


· Tobacco is the only legally available consumer product which kills people when it is used entirely as intended.


· Every year, around 114,000 smokers in the UK die as a result of their habit.


· Deaths caused by smoking are five times higher than the 22,833 deaths arising from: road traffic accidents (3,439), other accidents (8,579), poisoning and overdose (881), alcoholic liver disease (5,121), murder and manslaughter (513), suicide (4,066), and HIV infection (234) in the UK during 2002.


· About half of all regular cigarette smokers will eventually be killed by their habit.


· Smoking causes about thirty per cent of all cancer deaths (including around 84% of lung cancer deaths), 17% of all heart disease deaths and at least 80% of deaths from bronchitis and emphysema.


· Polls show that people underestimate the health risks of smoking and the effects of passive smoking.



· Tobacco smoke contains over 4,000 chemical compounds, which are present either as gases or as tiny particles. These include:


nicotine
This is what is addictive. It stimulates the central nervous system, increasing the heartbeat rate and blood pressure. In large quantities nicotine is extremely poisonous.

tar
Brown and treacly in appearance, tar consists of tiny particles and is formed when tobacco smoke condenses. Tar is deposited in the lungs and respiratory system and gradually absorbed. It is a mixture of many different chemicals, including: formaldehyde, arsenic, cyanide, benzopyrene, benzene, toluene, acrolein.

carbon monoxide
This binds to haemoglobin in the bloodstream more easily than oxygen does, thus making the blood carry less oxygen round the body.


· The UK government earned £8,103 million in revenue from tobacco duty excluding VAT in the financial year 2004-05.


· The Government currently spends around £25m on anti-smoking education campaigns. A further £50m is spent on measures to help people stop smoking.


· ASH was established in 1971 by the Royal College of Physicians following the failure of the Government to act on the College's request for effective laws to reduce tobacco use.