set up PA to make midis sound good

[charlie]

Hello everybody.....been a little while since I posted last, so here goes. I had been playing different venues here recently along with our house gig and started noticing that the PA was sounding strange. I realize that acoustics can change the perception of the sound as one cannot exist without the other...unless you got a gig on the moon with zero acoustics. So, in an attempt to make the PA sound like I was gigging where I was familiar, I set up the EQ to make it sound good to me as I mix from stage like everybody does. It was then I realized how acoustics, or the lack thereof, can totally change the perception of the sound, especially when mixed from stage. So, the problem: How do I set up the PA so it sounds good to me , all the time. One thing I thought about was setting up a little monitor on a stand and have it pointed back at us. TC Helicon makes a very good one, I'm told. Of course, the old fashion-tried and true sound check before the gig. But, to be honest...most of the time we dont have the luxury of a sound check...we have to set up in 30-45 minutes...and be performing. One thing I have discovered is certain frequencies are far more irritating than others.....a loud shrill 2K, honky midrange, or boomy bottom can drive people away....you have to have a transparent mix, I believe, where all the necessary frequencies are heard, not over emphasized by the in-board or out-board EQ. Granted, I like my mixes a little heavy on the low end as we do a lot of dance tunes and you need that to make people wanna move. But too much low end muddies the mix. I ususally set my 31 band EQ to cut frequencies that are over bearing and maybe a little boost around 100 - 125hz for the low end punch. Given the fact that sequences are all mixed independently, it seems to me that you would have to find a happy medium as far as the EQ is concerned and adjust as needed on the fly if a certain frequency is way out of line. Anyway, just an observation. Curious to see how other live midi musicians tackle this problem....

Thanks,

Charlie

[thingyy]

That is exactly why I use a seperate sound system for my midi files.
Vocal and insrument clashes are a pain unless you have a sound man working your system.
Cheaper option for me was 2 systems.{stereo for my backing tracks}

[charlie]

Brilliant! Wow...why didn't I think of that? That IS ...the solution. Plus run the midis in stereo? That's gotta sound real good. I'm gonna try that. I believe the EQ separation between the vocals and midi files is worth pursuing. It seems to me that the vocals are suffering due to competition with the midi files for the same sonic space. Run a vocal PA....and a Midi PA...balance them out for the most perfect blend....awsome...thanks "thingyy"......lol...man, that is so cool

[thingyy]

Try and get a decent hi/fi amp with at least 300watts per side.Crown ones are quite good I understand.
Set your speakers behind you and on each side for the midis and front of house for the PA.

[thingyy]

www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/xls.htm
One of these will probably be my next upgrade.

[sweetk2678]

I have been experiencing similar problems with the way the pa is sounding at some gigs, I have also started converting all my midis to mp3's as my computer and sound module were letting me down recently. For some reason the laptop began stopping in the middle of songs for which I have no explanation, and there has always been an issue with different midis having differing sound levels, so I find making them into mp3's and having them all backed up on cd's means most of these problems are solved.

[civicman]

I think having two PA systems is a lot of gear to be lugging around and setting up. I have often thought of having seperate PAs for vocals and midifiles but I would have had to trade my car in for a van and take more time for set up and tear down. My solution was to get a 600 watt amp to handle both vocals and midis. It is not an issue of being loud but having enough headroom so all the instruments do not have to do battle with your vocals in the sonic landscape. Knowing what frequency ranges the instruments occupy also helps to clear things up. So, a powerful amp and a good e.q. should keep the vocals from being buried in the mix.
civicman

[thingyy]

I've got a van and am in a duo so that is not a problem for me.
There is the added advantage of a spare system if anything claps out.

[Stephanie]

You can cut down on the bulk a bit with powered speakers. If budget permits, parallel systems for midifiles and vocals would be nice, but even a small mixing board will handle mikes and accompaniment and even give you some EQ and effects and will run your speakers directly. The nice thing about a setup like this is you can upgrade incrementally. Need more power? Upgrade the speakers. Need more mikes or other inputs? Upgrade the mixer. Won the lottery? Upgrade everything :-)

[Steptoe]

Always tune the PA to the room to get rid of those nasty frequencies before you start. Set up a microphone at the far edge of the dancefloor facing the PA then slowly turn it up till it starts to feedback then pull down the offending frequency on the graphic till the feedback ring has stopped, turn up the volume a bit more and another ring will start, pull down that frequency and so on till the PA has reached gig volume or slightly louder. Then apply the same technique to the foldback.

Once the PA is tuned to the room adjust the Midi backing via the tone controls on the Mixer channel! Not the graphic!
The Graphic EQ in a live situation is there to tune your PA system to the room not to adjust your tone as a graphic does on your home stereo

Adjusting the backing track using the Graphic is always going to have a detrimental effect on the vocals and any instruments going through the PA!

Two P.A's IMO is unnecesary if your system is set up correctly!

Two P.A.s equals twice the work!

[jford]

Some good stuff to try here. Thanks for posting this thread.

[Stephanie]

If your midi player lets you mix channels on the fly (mine does), and you have the time, spend a bit of time balancing these to the venue. Some venues eat bass, others swallow up highs. And while you're doing that, do a REAL sound check, with vocals and all, playing a real song (not that ancient Chinese thing, Too Ning :-) ). Too many times I've heard vocals lost in the accompaniment, or clipping trashing the sound when you crank it up for an enthusiastic crowd! And yes, (*blush*) we've committed those offenses too...

[shanless]

just turn it on.....and TURN IT UP!!

[blonaybear]

I think that 2 PA's would create even more problems, especially in a venue with poor acoustics. Two different speaker systems can react with each other and cause some very unwelcome results.
I found a lot of very good advice in the books about live sound by Paul White the editor of Sound On Sound magazine.
For feedback problems I put my mic through a Behringer Shark which has an automatic feedback killer as well as compression and a gate. It's not expensive and it works very well.