mp3 backing tracks vs. midi files

[charlie]

Merry Christmas everybody!

Just a quick question to all those live midi musicians like me:

Has anyone tried using MP3 backing tracks instead of midi files? I'm not talking about midi-files that have been converted to the MP3 format. I mean...real studio quality backing tracks. One major advantage of using MP3 backing tracks is that most of the tracks are done on up-scale studio gear ...and background vocals can be included. It has always been a desire of mine to use background vocals as a way to "humanize" the midi files...but I have yet discovered a away to do that. Any thoughts?

[levi2]

nope not me
but if you can harmaonize why not make yer own save a lot of money

[rogerch]

Charlie,

Why don't you just add your harmony in the midi file and use a vocalizer? I have most of my files with exact harmony and I still have controll over the singers.

If you want more info on it let me know.

Roger

[charlie]

Hey Roger,

Wow! Please tell me more....I'm a little confused about the "add your harmony in the midi file and use a vocalizer" thing. Do you mean record a background track to a .wav file and let the track trigger the harmonizer and it will make multi-part harmony from that track? Wow...that question even confuses me more..LOL...any help would be greatly appreciated...

[alpina]

Charlie , I am on the sidelines too ....Double wow...

Andy

[levi2]

rog never tried it how about putting up instruction for all

[rogerch]

Most vocalizers have a vococer mode. In vocoder mode the machine reacts to your singing. You install the notes in a track that you want the vocoder to sing. The machine reacts to velocity from the sequencer and audio from you singing.

It's really not that hard to get! You put the harmony into a staff, record it in or enter it manually. It sings those notes you entered.

Downfalls are you can't have a back-up singer singing with out you! But the benefits of having singers with you are astounding!

You want to talk about learning to harmonize? How about with yourself?

What a learning tool for singers.

Roger

[guilty]

Hi guys......I have a few mp3's with backing vocals which is great when working Duo but I have a regular Solo gig at which I never use those tracks. Why?......because of the constant accusations of miming. This happens a lot to me (anyone else)? I like to be able to prove a point to the hecklers by stopping my guitar and vocals so they can hear the backing track by itself momentarily. Of course the 'bright' ones still can't work out where the drummer is.
Thats just my dilemma but I am amazed with what Rogerch is explaining about the vocalizer.

[gibbo]

Too true, Guilty. It seems to be a regular thing when you're using sequences. My duo partner played keys with me for the first 6 years but got totally p'd off by all the idiots who kept asking, "Are you really playing that keyboard?". She used to look at them and say, "No, mate, I'm just lugging this 35kg keyboard to and from the gig, setting it up, pounding away on it for 4 hours, then going home and setting it up at home so I can rehearse every day just because it makes me look good!" About 10% of them got it and the rest looked puzzled and walked away. After a couple of years of that she just played all her parts into the sequences and left the keys at home! Funnily enough, she seems a lot happier these days just prancing around on stage!
As for backing vocals; we started with the Digitech Vocalist and now use Voiceworks and use the harmoniser function run by midi (but it's way back in the mix just filling things out).

[rogerch]

Gibbo,

When you say you use the harmonizer function run by midi what exactly are you doing? Are you using a 4 part function of the harmonizer turned on/off by the midi?

The reason I'm asking is that the Digitech Vocalist has many functions but only one, the vocoder mode has real value if you ask me. All of the other modes just create some kind of harmony by the audio implied to it. Example, you sing a "G" note and it produces a "G" cords so to say. So if you were singing a song and could stomp on the pedals at the right time you may be able to impress someone, but not a musician....he would not be fooled to believing it was natural or real.

Now if you go the vocoder mode and do the work needed you will get a real sweet effect to your music. Here is what you would need to do. Listen to the song and figure out the harmony parts (exactly as sung on the original. Then you would get them exact notes into a separate track of the midi. Use the midi to turn on/off the vocalizer as you need for harmony parts via control codes and the outcome is exact harmony (same as original artist) singing at the exact time you need.

Now this harmony is a substitution for actual voices so you suggest the harmony to your audience, you don't put it in their face. You have it enough to hear but not so harsh that people ask where are your other singers, again it is implied harmony.

Davesinger, who is a member on this forum has it dialed in!!! he taught me pretty much everything I know about the harmony aspect of a vocalizer. He had a few songs posted in the members stage that some of the interested ones should listen to to get a picture better of the sound. I assume his songs are still posted, if not I do have some of his samples I will post on my web page.

I would be more than willing to help anyone wanting to get there, as I was helped by Davesinger.

Roger

[charlie]

Hey Roger,

This is why this web-site is so awesome. People helpling people. If you can elaborate further on the vocoder thing, I'm sure all of us would love to be helped. In return, I want to upload some killer sequences I have acquired over the years, but I'm not so sure how to do it. Can I put all the sequences in a zip folder and then upload?

Charlie

[rogerch]

Charlie,

First, if you have a bunch of zip's you want to send into midimart, the best way would be zip them up and send them to glenn. He will take care of the rest.

More on the Vocalizer....

I use a digitech vocalist II, it's an older model but it works just fine for what I need. There are 128 patches, one of them being the vocoder and the other one I am interested in is the by-pass patch.

After I have the harmony parts in the midi file I turn the vocalist on and off by sending patch (glockenspiel - Vocoder) at the start of the harmony and patch (FX4 atmosphere - by-pass) at the end of the harmony. This just turns the vocalist on and off at the appropriate times.

When the sequencer send the control codes to the vocalist, in vocoder mode the notes you send will come out as audio and is controlled by your voice. So if you get right up on the mic it responds to your control. If you back away from the mic it will be less.

Here is my set-up to get it to work. I send the mic cable to my mixer channel 1, and then aux send that signal out to the vocalist and return it to the mixer on channel 2 and have full control of the volume of the harmony at that point.

Roger

[thingyy]

Hi, I am using a voiceworks harmoniser. All my harmony notes are written on a track in the midi file plus the gender/volume/effects/pitch correction{for the night after syndrome}.
Very expensive tool but it sounds great.
Running 2 of these in a duo set up.We back each others vocals with 2 harmonies 1 sung and the other in the voiceworks.
It has a chord mode also that can be programmed or run live into a keyboard and harmonies created live by the chords played into it.
A big pain in the butt to work initially as the manual is written by a tech and not a musco.
Got great assistance from the web site at TC Helicon.
I find using note mode best in our situation as once it is on the midi file its all finished.
Ideal for home recording as it can add 4 harmonies if you wanna sound like the Beach Boys.
Some commercially made midi files have the hamony tracks in them but may need to be moved according to your phrasing.
All easily done in Cakewalk.
Hope this doesn't come across as a waffle !

[gibbo]

Yep, Roger, I do exactly as you've described; I write the harmony parts in midi and then set the Voiceworks to track those parts. I used to do exactly the same with the Digitech Vocalist vocoder function but, in my humble opinion, the Voiceworks does an even better job. I'm not a fan of chordal harmony patches at all, I want something that sounds like an actual harmony singer and I usually only use one or two parts and as I said, I mix them way back... it's just a personal taste thing. By the way, my name is Dave and I'm a singer! lol