Welfare or Doles for the poor

[shyamwestwind]

Lyn, there arent any welfare hand outs at all in India and the poorer sections just have to work and earn their daily bread. It is sad, but at the same time I do feel if these people get doles or handouts, they might just not work at all and live on those. In India, it is possible for a human being to "exist" on about Rs.30/- per day, which is about 30 pence or 40 cents. I know that this can be earned by doing odd jobs which are available. We find many beggars here and they earn more than Rs.200 a day, so they dont want to work and are comfortable putiing on cry faces and begging. These dont deserve any sympathy.

[Tubbs]

Hi Shyam, an interesting discussion. While their are people who abuse the welfare system, i think the more genuine vulnerable people in society do need helping, people who are genuinely sick for one. People who work hard and pay taxes should also be helped in times of genuine hardship.

Here in Ireland, where the recession is starting to hit hard, our brainless government never saved any money when times were good and as a result do they try to claw back money from the rich? No, they target the working classes and take free medical care from the over 70's.....yet they still are going to inject massive money into bailing the banks out, who incidentally have just paid all staff massive bonuses for the year.

So its back to being a Banana Republic...run by the biggest shower of useless b*%*ards ever!!

Phew, feel better now!!

[shyamwestwind]

Yes, the helpless and hapless, deserve the welfare schemes and there has to be a good judicious welfare system in place.
The recession, in my humble opinion, could have been avoided. All we hear about today is about different bail ots. Who will bail out the already stressed out working class ?

[Tubbs]

Nov 24, 2008 10:54:50 GMT shyamwestwind said:

Who will bail out the already stressed out working class ?

Who indeed Shyam!!

[weegeo]

Well my old friend Shyam, you have served up another great post i wait to see how many differing views you will get.
My own particular take on it is as simple as day follows night and i make no apologies for it, the welfare state in our part of the world was put in place by an early Government to help the poor and the needy. We have been used to free medical treatments and operations although the waiting list is somewhat long these days.
On the financial side of things we all pay our national Insurance stamp or levy[call it what you will] so therefore we that have worked hard all our days and fall on hard times are entitled to state benefits, these benefits are meant to take the stress out of unemployment but are at such a low paltry rate they become a disgrace. The other state benefits that we have are also open to massive abuse by just about everyone, we have foreign nationals coming over mainly from poland,romania and the like and the first thing they do is `sign on` and get a state handout and a free house [i`m not in any wat a racist] but this is a fact of life over here in the UK.
One of the most widely abused benefit is DLA [disability living allowance] this is given to people that can`t work or have an illness that stops them from working, one of the components within this benefit is a motability factor if you are entitled to the high rate then you can get an allowance for a car and i have never seen so many of my friends driving new cars in my life. A very high percentage of the people on these benefits are on them by defraud a lot can work but are to lazy [this includesd young kids just leaving school] a lot have a fair amount of bad debt and stay on benefit where they have a safety escape from their creditors. All in all what was started as a genuine benefit has now in some cases become a great big gravy bowl. As to how to stop it i have no idea at all.
These are just a few thoughts that you have provoked in me and as i think of more i may add to them, but what a great post. Many Thanks Shyam

weegeo--------------------------now 3 stone lightwer having cleared his head lol lol lol

[weegeo]

sorry for the spelling blunders lol lol btw great pic Shyam quite like an old Indian cricketer, but we better not start a post on that


weegeo

[simmo123]

A big Hi to you Weegeo,it was very interesting reading your post on the welfare situation in the Ireland at present,i guess that system includes the whole of the UK,correct me if i'm wrong,the reason i am writing is that it brings back memories of when i was living in England, in the early 60's,married & working as a labourer laying kerbs & pavements for around 12 pounds a week,no car,TV & none of the things the that we now except as being essential to our survival,i'm sure many MM members can relate to those times, but the points you made about getting benefits for all sorts of things are really surprising to myself.I can clearly remember in around 1961/62 there was a particually severe winter when the frost basicly went down about 3 foot in the ground & stayed that way for several months which meant because of the type of work i was doing all the blokes were sacked & had to depend on what little payment they could get from the government,which was a pittance at that time.The big thing that stuck in my mind at that time was if you were absolutely desperate you could apply for a special allowance worth about in our case 30 shillings a week,correct me if i'm wrong but i think the payment was called national assistance,the thing that i now find quite funny was that to qualify for this extra money you were visited by an officious looking bloke in a pinstriped suit carrying an important looking briefcase,who never gave you any notice on when he might descend on you & he's duties were firstly to grill us frightend pair of newlyweds asking everything & anything about our situation.The next thing he would do after this very personal grilling would be to make an inspection of our terrace house,checking to see how much food was in the larder, furniture wasn't a problem as the bed was about the only bit of stuff that could qualify as being as such & as for the rest i still have fond memories of our orange box table plus a couple of handout chairs.The coal bunker he took special interest in as it was about half full,which in real terms meant a delay of 3 weeks before the due 30 shillings a week would kick in.Our other special trick was we would visit relatives around mealtimes which sometimes paid dividends but at least a cuppa was always forthcoming,i know its a different world today ( thank God) but after hearing about the situation in the UK i wonder if it has gone a little to far & if so whats to come next.I guess from our own personal situation the 10 pounds we parted with some forty odd years ago to come to Australia was for us a wise if not worrying at that time decision & we have never once regretted it, but in saying that we still have many friends & family still living in the UK whom we miss dearly,in fact next year is the big one for us as we are coming over to catch up with as many folks as we can,so look out the Simmo's are on the march ;D ;D

[weegeo]

Hey there there the simmo`s when you get over here i am definately gonna visit lol wow so you where a 10 pound leaver, my 2 primary schoolfriends left as well with their parents of course lol on the same scheme unfortunately the eldest 1 has died but just recently i managed to track down his brother, he is a government official at Bathurst but enough of the small talk back to benefits. The benefit you know as national assistance is now `income support`and i think is about 50 quid a week depending on circumstances, we also have incapacity allowance which is for the sick both short time and long term and once again the rate varies up to a maximum i think of 95 quid apart from these benefits we also have various grants and loans. A lot of the kids setting up home apply for and get first of all a community care grant of up to i think about 600 quid they can also apply for a `budgeting loan` up to 1800 quid this is all taken from their other benefits at an affordable sum and is interest free. I live on my own finances although i do get the disabilty living allowance this all i require, i have never been on the `dole` in all my working days i don`t condemn anyone that has to `sign on `but i have been fortunate not too, with my illness i qualify for a lot more but i don`t need it. Hope this explains it a little more simmo

weegeo---------------behind the counter at the dole office giving all his MM friends their cash lol

[JohnG]

Interesting hearing about Sharron Matthews mother who made a profession out of having more children to increase her benefits! Did anyone else catch the Panorama special about her. Of course it was the Social Services fault again. If you can't find anyone else to blame, blame them, eh?
Just my 2d worth (old money) and it's only a point of view.
How about working for a living?
Or is that an old fashioned point of view?
JohnG.

[weegeo]

Good point John we have an epidemic over here at present where it seems the `norm` for young girls to get pregnant [before i get shouted at i know there are brilliant 1 parent families] so that they can claim all the extra benefits like extra child benefit,extra dole money and the best of the lot rent free housing as someone that has 8 children [2 from my previous marriage] i am exceptionally proud to say that not one of them are on benefit of any sort and all work for a living, they all pay for childminding except for my son that is still living with us we look after his 3 and i`m sorry to say that this seems to be rare but they make me so proud.

weegeo

[musicman97]

In the States, the unemployment rate among blind people has been 70% for as long as i can remember and now during the recession i think its up to 79% most likely higher than that.

I'm not bragging on myself for when i finished school and training, while seeking employment i soon learned that there were many excuses for the employers not to hire me. The most famous, 'Our insurance will not cover you even though you meet the qualifications."

So after 32 years of being self employed, always keeping others in jobs that i hired cheerfully. A self employed person pays 13.5% income tax which is double of an employee of a business or company.

So here i was feeling all good and proud when I noticed that people in the business of helping the disabled to acquire a job were advertising in the media as follows. 'We take potential tax consumers and convert them into tax paying citizens. i said, "Hey guys, wait a minute. hold the phone. I got a Charlie Daniels song you need to hear the words to, says, i ain't asking nobody for nothing if i can't git it on my own.' These guys I was talking to had just voted themselves a healthy pay raise and i foot the bill.

All 4 of our kids are grown, all working 2 and 3 jobs i hope our public assistance safety net will be there in case they need it.

But times sure do get rough, hope everyone will make it through these trying times.

Best wishes