FUNERAL SONGS

[shyamwestwind]

I truly dont understand this - WHY oh Why, do we sing at funerals ? For whose benefit ? The departed soul ? He cant hear what anyone's singing and he's getting set to push up the daisies, so who are we singing these for ?
If its for the living who are gathered around to bid adieu to their loved one, - doesnt it make them sadder ? Do they need a funeral song , a sad song to remind them of their loss ?
The only reason I can think of is that we would like to believe that the departed soul is "watching" us from "above" and we would like to show him how much we loved him and cared for him and how sad we are that he or she has left us never to return
Doesnt this sound ridiculous ?
We are trying to impress the departed soul or we are trying to impress the living around us - either way, it doesnt make sense.
We should just say a simple prayer for the departed and think kindly of him, try and help those he or she has left behind, try to emulate his/her good side of life and wish him peace wherever his soul rests.
If this is part of funeral rites, its time to do away with them, dont you think ?

[shyamwestwind]

Sorry guys, but I have deleted my recording of "My Way" and I hope Pat (Emerald Midi) wont get wild with me . I just dont feel good about the song any more.

[gibbo]

No, I disagree Shyam.
Music has always been an integral part of many human rites including funeral services.
It's just a tradition and to answer your question about "why?" one might just as easily say "Why not?". What's next, do away with the Wedding March?
I always see it as a comfort to the people attending the service, something that reminds them of the person who has left the body, and usually an attempt to help us come to terms with and cope with the loss.
As an example; my dear cousin died after a long battle with cancer but one of the things she did before she died was planned out the whole funeral service and wake. She chose one of her favourite songs, "Roadhouse Blues", as one of the songs to be played during the service, it had no religious funeral-rite significance at all but made every one of us remember her as she was before the illness. Everyone present was smiling and thinking of happier times and remembering her as she truly was. Most of us had a good laugh along with the tears. The rest of the funeral and wake was an absolute celebration of friendship and her remarkable life, music played a big part in it. BTW, the absolute topper of it all was that she paid for the whole thing herself!
When my best friend and musical-partner, Rob (Jake in our Blues Brothers Show), was tragically killed on the way home from a gig we used the music from the Blues Brothers movie for his funeral service. Same deal; lots of smiling faces thinking of all the great times in Rob's life rather than the loss of his death. Music was the most important thing in Rob's life and and to not have it at his funeral would have been a travesty.
Music is a part of all balanced life, let's keep it that way.
That's my 10 cents worth!
Cheers, Dave.

[shyamwestwind]

You are definitely entitled to your own views in this debate, Dave, but I still note that ithese funeral songs are for the benefit of those living and attending the funeral service. There are so many small and bigger incidents which come into our lives to remind us of the times we shared with the person who has just died, and these can be brought back to remind us of them , maybe at their Death Anniversaries or Birth Anniversaries,.
A funeral , I feel, is a time when the grieving has just come face to death with the loss of a loved one and needs to accept that fact. They do not need reminders in that hour of grief.
For the sake of argument or lets call it debate, will we tolerate a clown at the Cemetry, just because the deceased liked their act at circuses ?
Dave, this is just a debate and its good to agree to diasagree, so do pounce at me if you wish, because I stll feel this funeral singing is not in keeping with the sad occassion.

[gibbo]

I'd hardly pounce on you, Shyam. We're just expressing our personal opinions.
I still prefer to think of a funeral as a time for acknowledging and celebrating a life, the end of a cycle of existence. A lifetime is just a transitory thing in the greater scheme of things in my humble opinion.
I don't think a funeral service needs to be filled with sadness and grief BUT, again, that's just my opinion. Music, and particularly songs dear to the family, are hardly analogous to circus clowns at a Cemetery... unless the person deceased happened to be a major circus star... then it may be seen as perfectly appropriate!
What do others think about music at funerals? I have a sudden hankering to request "Send In The Clowns" at my funeral. lol
Cheer, Dave.

[mark]

Hi Guys

I have to agree with Gibbo.
A funeral is a celebration of the life of the departed. Music brings back happy memories. I myself do not want any sad faces at my Funeral and I have told my children that I want " Somethings Burning" by kenny rogers at My departure ( I am being cremated) and then for everyone to stand up and Sing "We wish you a merry Christmas" this song you cannot sing with a sad face. My sense of humour however odd keeps me going through life and all my friends would say I chose my songs well.We all make our Heaven here on earth. It is how we are remembered that counts on where we end up..

Great thread Shyam.

Regards

Mark

[shyamwestwind]

Hi Everyone
This "celebration of life" is actually what I used to call hospitals. Many look at hospitals as dreary, sad places, but isnt it a fact that sick people get admitted there to be nursed back to health and to life ? Yes a few do not make it, but the majority come out of hospitals after good care by the good doctors and nurses, with a new lease of life. That is CELEBRATION OF LIFE.
How can anyone "celebrate life when the person is dead ? Life after the death of a loved one can be very difficult for the ones left behind. Maybe it i cellebration for the dead person because he's moved on from whatever suffering he went through, to pass on beyond to heaven (?)
It is really selfish on our parts to make our loved ones to do our bidding in the assumption that we can " see " whats going on at our own funerals. When I die, I AM DEAD as dead can be.

[Tubbs]

Well, i think what you have to remember Shyam is that a lot of terminally ill people plan what they want at their funerals.....and this nearly always includes music, i know at mine i definately would like my favourite songs played, also, if it helps the grieving family to get through the service who could disagree with that.

It is of course everyone to their own opinion.

[gibbo]

Then I guess we'll simply have to agree to disagree, Shyam.
We obviously have different beliefs and frames of reference about life and death.
I view myself as a Spiritual Being not a body. I don't believe I'll actually be dead at all.
I do HAVE a body but that's only because I misheard when they were handing them out, I thought they said "Does anybody want a hobby?".
Anyway, it's served me well this lifetime and even though it's true that bodies can get knocked around, bent out of shape, old, worn-out and eventually die... I like them and think they're mostly a lot of fun. When this body dies I'll be sure to attend it's funeral out of respect and gratitude for all it's put up with from me over the years and, of course, to hear what they're saying about "me" behind my back!
I'm not in any hurry but I'm quite looking forward to it and just for the hell of it I'm going to insist on hearing "Send In The Clowns".
I hope you take this light-hearted response in the Spirit intended.
Cheers, Dave.

[Emerald Midi]

Gibbo, seems you and I share similar beliefs

[shyamwestwind]

We actually AGREE, Dave. You have just confirmed and I quote -
"When this body dies I'll be sure to attend it's funeral out of respect and gratitude for all it's put up with from me over the years and, of course, to hear what they're saying about "me" behind my back!
I'm not in any hurry but I'm quite looking forward to it "
Whether we believe in life after death or whatever, all of us would like to see how things move on after we cross over. Like you wrote - " to hear what they are saying about me, behind my back"
We can only satisfy our vanity to believe that we can look from above and feel good that people are actually grieving for me and hear all the good things my adversaries are saying about me, to see all the tears (real and crocodile) which are being shed for me and to see the emotions evoked by the singing of the songs for which I kept my request slips ready to take out on that fateful day.
I do not lack in emotions or sensitivities, but I am practical.
As it has been said, there are many many people who feel a sort of a comfort in these projected visions, but though I might tend to sympathise with their thinking, I would definitely ask them to get down to earth and live their lives to the fullest sharing their love and giving love to their loved ones and make all around you enjoy you till your last breath. Give your all till THAT moment and dont think about what comes after.
Dont feel hurt at what I'm saying here, all this is not to hurt or upset anybody - it is only to help enjoy our lives as it is now, without dreaming about the dramatics.

[gibbo]

Well, I certainly do NOT agree with your views as expressed on this thread, Shyam, but you're entitled to them. It seems to me that there are much more common ways to "satisfy our vanities" than envisioning life-after-death. I've stated my views and I hereby leave it at that.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, you've been most kind.

[Steptoe]

I think Dave has won this debate

[shyamwestwind]

I have been searching for this quote and found it today - it echoes my opinion.
François de la Rochefoucauld, a French Author says
“The pomp of funerals has more regard to the vanity of the living than the honor of the dead”

[Emerald Midi]

May 14, 2008 10:08:05 GMT shyamwestwind said:

I have been searching for this quote and found it today - it echoes my opinion.
François de la Rochefoucauld, a French Author says
“The pomp of funerals has more regard to the vanity of the living than the honor of the dead”

Shyam, while your views and opinions are welcome and appreciated here on the Midimart forum please also accept that not everyone is going to agree with them.

It may well be the case that funerals and how people behave at them holds little value for you and those who share your particular perspective but please recognise that on this issue there's little to be gained in telling people they are wrong in how they wish to mourn the loss of a loved one.

A respect for the beliefs of others goes a long way to ensuring harmony.

[shyamwestwind]

Pat, please do understand that this thread was about songs at funerals and being a Forum of musicians, it was a subject to be debated like any other. Dont we debate about what to sing at weddings and the choice of songs to choose for getting people on the floor ? We discuss so many "music related" issues, and this was just another one.
Debating about this particular subject does not mean I have little values for obsequies, but I am not here to defend my values and I wish not to get embroiled in a controversy that was not meant to be.
I have been misunderstood.
I suggest as this getting to be a "touchy" debate, this thread may be taken off , in entirety

[JohnG]

Well, Shyam, you've certainly stirred up a hornets' nest here!

Your original question about singing at funerals is well made but I would counter with the following. Doesn't the act of singing, for many people sometimes allow them to get in touch with their emotions? You say it makes them sadder, and that can be true, but isn't that often a good thing? Bear with me for a moment if you will?

If you've ever had to make the arrangements for a loved one's death, register the death, make funeral arrangements, inform all and sundry about the death, take those long phone calls from people who pretend that they are suffering more than you, deal with all the correspondence from the tax man, the bank, the solicitors etc. who continue to write as if the person is still alive. Try to write a eulogy that you feel is half fitting for the person who's absence is breaking your heart. And try to bear it all with a half a smile on your face. As the procedure progresses you become hardened to the world and lose touch with reality to some degree. That moment when, the eulogy delivered, you can sing (however appallingly) a song or a hymn, or whatever it is, that puts you in touch with the loss of that person and their precious memory is (or can be for some) a cathartic experience. The hard labour done, you can begin the process of grieving and thereby start to live again. Grieving is important and necessary for the health of the psyche, without it we become hardened and embittered.

It has long been the case that society has found some way of "sending off" their members to the next stage of their existence (if indeed there is a "next stage") and that has been coupled with some sort of ceremony. Is it more for the living than the dead? Quite possibly, though I think that's no bad thing. As I've said previously it can help the healing process.

That's my view of it and I know many who share this view in whole or in part. Of course, for some, their belief system may also require it, and I believe that the original purpose of its existence in that system was the same, although perhaps it may have been expressed in different words. Does it help the departed? Almost certainly not, as they have either gone on to something better or are beyond anything from the living, depending what you believe (or don't).

Consider too the many types of death and ask yourself which group you would deny singing to. Let's start with some of the most difficult:
The parents of a stillborn child.
The parents of a young child who hast just died from leukemia.
The parents or siblings of a boy or girl recently murdered.
The parents, spouse or siblings who lost a loved one in a tube bombing.
Not to mention cyclones and earthquakes.
Of course I could go on, the list is huge, but I won't.

Perhaps though as a palliative I should say that it's those who have lived a full and long life that we should perhaps grieve least over, though who would deny a young grandchild the right to sing for his or her much loved grandparent?

Singing for the departed? IMHO most certainly. Please don't let practicality get in the way of your emotions. Although I know that at the worst moments our emotions can be swamped by the practicalities of day-to-day existence. Been there, done that.

As usual just my 2d worth.
JohnG.

[knimmo]

just had to agree with johng wholeheartedly on this.

[JohnG]

And as final words on this subject. Is the singing usually appalling? Often, in my opinion, but is it any wonder? Can you sing with a lump in your throat?

As for the pomp and ceremony at some bigwigs funeral? Well, you may have a point there. But then again you can look back at Diana's and Churchill's funerals. Weren't they a nation's symbols of expressing their loss and their gratitude respectively?

So again, are they really more about the living than the dead? Yes, IMHO most certainly so. But that's their purpose, to allow us to pay our respects in our own way and to move on. It's for those people who lose someone and the body is never recovered, e.g. lost at sea or worse, children abducted, whom I feel sorriest for, how do the they come to terms with such a thing?

But this is all getting into too sensitive an area for me (and for many others I suspect) so I'll make this my last on the subject. Somehow it's difficult to discuss these matters in the same way as weddings and birthdays etc. Of course it's long been a taboo subject in Western culture. But maybe it's a good thing to air it occasionally?

Don't let the strong responses stop you raising controversial subjects please, Shyam?
You frequently start the most interesting posts.
Final 2d on this one. (probably!)
JohnG.

[Emerald Midi]

I think we'll let JohnG have the last (almost) word on this

Thanks Shyam for another interesting debate but I think it's best we finish off this topic right now.

This topic is locked.