"Free" Audition Gigs

[a.j.]

I’m not sure if this has been discussed before (the forum has become so big, and I don’t always get the chance to check new posts on a regular basis). I’d really like to know what other members (especially in other countries) think about doing ‘freebies’ or sample gigs with the promise of work if the venue owner likes your stuff.

The reason I'm raising this is because one of our band members said that he was going to approach a local sports club that he is connected with, to let us do a freebie with a view to getting regular work from them. We agreed that we would do a couple of hours on a Sunday at lunchtine, in exchange for a lunch and expenses.

The proposal he came back with was that they wanted us to to work Mother’s Day, for a 5 hour stretch (alternating live music and disco half-hourly), but still only in exchange for lunch and expenses, to see if they like us. This has caused a huge rift, as he is upset that the rest of the band didn’t exactly jump at the idea.

We set up our current line-up as a function band, and while I am aware that we may need to do the odd free set here and there in the interests of getting more regular function work, it’s pretty clear in the first couple of songs whether we’re any good or not.

We are aware that a similar thing happens to naïve young bands here, where the venue owner tries to convince them to do a free gig on a Friday or Saturday night for ‘exposure’. As far as I am concerned this is just a crafty way to con up and coming musicians into providing free entertainment on a busy night.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Are we being excessively hard-headed about this?

[weegeo]

Well my threepence worth is this.I tend to look at it from the point of view that you already said about young bands!!this is a good starting point for them simply because they have no `cred`or reputation. You on the other hand i would presume are an established outfit with [please don`t take this wrong] either a good or an indifferent reputation.I on the other hand haven`t auditioned or will i audition my talents in over 35 years. My view is if the club know that your good then they`ll book you and the other interesting thing is that this club want you to play on a day that i have always found to be profitable [are there no alarm bells ringing] i would think very carefully before committing the band to this venture i think if they want you then they`ll pay your rates
Good luck on whatever you decide and i hope i haven`t confused the issue for you

weegeo

[weeo]

I agree with all weegeo has said and would just like to add that a 5 hour gig seems very long for an audition.
I've only done one audition for a club and it was a 15minute spot while the normal band had a break .I'm sure they could tell if you're any good in this time.
Anyway,best of luck in whatever you decide.
Regards
Eddie

[shyamwestwind]

Dear a.j. you are absolutely right in your opinion of not doing free shows to obtain contracts. and though your friend might get upset about the rest not joining in, dont worry, he'll realise you guys were right, sooner or later.
I firmly believe that free shows should be done for charity, for a good cause and sometimes for some family member of the band. When I had a full fledged band, we had a policy never to charge other musician friends , to play at their weddings. They would just need to hire out the required sound reinforcements, but our services were free.
We need to have confidence in ourselves and belief in our music. Once we are confident, it will show and genuine club managements will see our worth. If anyone wants to hear the band, call them to listen to you at some other venue you are playing. Let them "assess" you there and decide whether you are "good enough" for them or not. If there arent any gigs to invite them to, call them to your practice den and let them hear you out.
Playing free is worse than playing cheap and the band loses its value once you do so. You will win respect when you exude the confidence of a well practiced band.
Dont lock horns with your partner, a.j. I'm sure he just wanted to help and that makes him a NICE guy, in my eyes.
Cheers

[shezza]

FIVE HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wouldn't do a five hour gig for payment let alone for free, Kick em in to touch.

[thingyy]

I'd do a 30 min freebie then after that negotiate a price for the rest of the night.
Looks to me like you may be getting ripped off.

[Emerald Midi]

Ridicules!

a.j, mate, they are taking the provable. Tell them to stuff their venue if they're going to take advantage like that.

[Steptoe]

Tell em they're dreaming!

I'll bet the club's making money on a Mothers Day function!

[gibbo]

Hi AJ,
No, you're not being hard-headed, you're being smart, don't even consider doing the gig under those conditions. If you set a precedent like doing a 5 hour function for meals then that's your "going rate" as far as the venue is concerned. The obvious outpoint is that no venue would put a band or act in for a 5 hour function unless they thought the act could cut it in the first place.
I'd probably tell the venue manager that he gets 10 points for creative scamming but just lost the opportunity to have you work for him. Keep us posted!
Cheers, Dave.

[a.j.]

Thanks for all the comments, guys - pretty much my own sentiments on the subject. I was thinking about this last night, and if they're so worried about whether we're good enough to do a paid gig, why would they risk us on such a big day for them.

The band in it's current format is relatively unknown, but all the members have worked semi-professionally since the 80's, and are well known locally (I'm the only one that had a break for a few years). I believe that we have a good quality professional product (and so do the people we have worked for), and I'm not prepared to devalue it by giving it away.

Like you said Thingyy, we're happy haul the rig out and do a sample, for expenses, but not a full gig.

By the way Shayam, we did do a charity gig last year - but we still got paid!

[rossi]

"Free" gigs.

Always been a bit of a thorny problem this one.
I've found that most of these offers are just ruses to get some free entertainment.
I recall many years back that in the North West(England), there were such Sunday lunchtime sorties known as "Concert Secs auditions". This was where all the clubs in the area sent a representative to see a showcase of different acts performing free. I can understand this, because it actually cut out the middle man (agent) and the clubs could negotiate a reasonable fee direct from the artist, plus the artist had no "ten percent" to pay out as well. Plus, the artist only ever performed a handful of songs or did fifteen minutes of comedy, depending on the act.
Over here in the Canaries, I book all the cabaret acts for the venue where I play and to be honest there are many acts coming on spec who say they are the best thing since sliced bread...(what was the best thing before sliced bread?)...Some are rubbish, others great, as you might expect. I tell them all that they can come and do a wee bit on a Friday evening,(fifteen minutes or so) and that is usually enough to allow an assesment to be done.
To be fair, I've turned down some fantastic talent, but only because they wouldn't have been right for the venue. I've also had to say no to some rubbish as well, but I can honestly say I've never taken advantage of any act because I've been in the same situation as them, (many times).
I would say if any venue wants you to perform for a full night for free the're probably taking you for a ride. And also, any decent act would stand by their guns if they knew they were good and tell the proprietor to "stuff the job."
Talent always works.
Cheers,
Rossi

[shezza]

This is straight from the horses mouth............
A few weeks ago I had noticed that I was well down on gigs compared with this time last year, so on phoning my agent I inquired what the problem was he stated that the venues were
finding it hard because of the price of beer and the smoking ban.
So I inquired why if work was hard to get, why does he have a permanent advertisement in the local paper wanting
solo artists.duo's,groups and stating that they must audition.
He said........"Oh I never use them (the acts) again it's just to make some money for the venue and keep in their good books"

[weegeo]

AJ just as an after thought we could all be out 7 nites and days a week if we were doing `freebies`the fact that they have an interest in booking you should encourage you to ask for your fee as normal if you want to work out a reduced fee then thats up to you.Just 1 last thing for me they wouldn`t have enough cash in their till to encourage me to do a 5 hour gig lol i hope you can sort it out to suit your band. Once again good luck

weegeo

[shanless]

If you are a confident band...then why do you need to do freebies?...and why do you not have regular work through word of mouth........this may sound big headed..but I know I'm good..and I have the confidence to shun freebies....I charge £150 per week night Mon-Wed...£200 Thurs Fri Sat...and I have as full a diary as I want .....be confident.

[knimmo]

dont touch it with a barge pole,why cant they accept a demo disc,I can remember doing 5hr gigs on new years eve but not for free,this one that you talk about doesn't promise anything.

BE CAREFULL

[a.j.]

We have absolutely no intention of doing it. Two things stuck in my mind , though (which is probably where the post came from in the first place):

1. Forgetting the time period they wanted (no-body I know does a 5-hour gig anyway), I was flabbergasted that anyone would have the cheek to even suggest doing a gig on that basis, on Mother's Day, or any other day.

2. What worried me was that we are working with someone who thinks that a) it seemed like an acceptable proposition, and b) that we would even consider it.

It has made for some interesting discussion, though, and confirms my feelings on the subject.

[shyamwestwind]

a.j. dont take it out too hard on your member muso .............i'm sure he just meant well and lacking the confidence in himself, he would have wanted to get some contract somehow.. He'll learn in the days to come and all of you can have a laugh over this someday.

[a.j.]

Thanks Shayam. All part of growing up...

[charlie]

Hey a.j.

I have been approached to do freebies for audition purposes and have always used this comeback: "We would love to an audition for you, but we are so busy playing I don't know when we can audition for you. I tell you what...why don't you come to where we are playing and hear us...your meal and drinks are on us!" It's worked every time and we have never had to play a freebie. The prospective club owner gets a free meal and drinks for his time, and we book several gigs at once. Plus, the club owner gets to see you in action in front of a crowd you're used to playing to...you're relaxed and there's no pressure....you already have a gig. LOL!

[steveb]

Charlie,

that the best approach I have ever heard, I may use that one myself, If you don't mind