The New Forum / Main Site

[Tone_Deff (Musicmaker)]

Hi Glenn and Mods,

I have read and re-read the changes to the operation of this site and forum, and fail to understand its entirity!

As I see it - The Forum will continue to be Members only, but free.
The main site requires subscription. (Reduced rate for Forum Members).

Two questions spring to mind, if I am correct - 1. Will new .mids still appear on the Forum? - I note none have been posted this week!, and 2. If this is the case, What will you do to retain members? - Compared to other (free) forums I belong to, this is certainly the least 'busy', and I suspect it will become even quieter, without the exchange of .mids, which are free on many other musicians sites/forums .

My good friend and mentor Gary Witchell (Gary 0001) took the decision you have made a few years ago, to make his Site a Subscription one, and his traffic has decreased from over 2 million hits a year, to less than 1,500 other than subscribers, who have slowly declined over 4 years from 354 in the first year to less than 100 now - and he produces possibly the best mids on the net!

If you have (at present) a proveable rate of hits per month, there are other ways of obtaining costs, approaching advertisers is the most common one, when you can produce valid membership numbers and hits per month.

Perhaps a way forward might be to introduce a .mid for a .mid exchange for people like myself who are actually producing .mids of a good quality either by step sequencing, or who are arranger/keyboard owners who can record their songs. As you know, my wife (Sunny) and I produce excellent quality music.

Over the last 20 odd years, I have given my music (music = time!) freely, and I also go out and play in retirement homes, and for Charity, free of charge. This is in spite of the fact that I only get £146 a week Old Age Pension, have no other income or savings, and I put over £5,000 worth of equiment on stage when I perform.

I have never paid for anything off the net (including much expensive software! wink, wink!) ... and I have no intention of doing so, when at this time, I have to look at almost every penny I spend.

Sorry to be a bloody miserable old git, but I just wanted to put my personal opinion in writing to you! .... I realise that you have server costs, and also your time and expertise. However, I do believe your move is retrograde, and will eventually sound the death knell of the Forum, and reduce by thousands, the number of hits to the main site..

Kind regards,

Tony

[midimart]

Hi tony....

Thanks for your concern.

I have tried every avenue available, advertising, voluntary donations, etc but all to no avail.

i like you are on a miserable income, I do not gig now as the club scene has dried up for more than 3 piece bands and unfortunately I can't sin a note. So I decided to pay for the main site out of my own pocket, but there comes a time when there is a loss on my finances. Therefore some of the expenditure has to come from somewhere.

I dedicate my time freely and upload new files I produce nearly every day (this week I have been upgrading the main site - but back to normal next week).

[Emerald Midi]

Although I am totally all for making things freely available I can appreciate why Glenn has decided to go down this road.

For years he has devoted his time and energy to sequencing professionally produced files, which he has up until now made available to anyone who needed them. But unfortunately due to the costs involved with running a site such as midimart.net he has little alternative other than to ask for what is in all honesty a relatively small consideration to help off-set his own financial outlay.

There may well be a few issues that need resolving as the concerns of all members are taken into account, but rest assured there are no plans whatsoever to introduce a similar payment option for here.

[Tone_Deff (Musicmaker)]

Thanks for the speedy response, Glenn.

In the mean while, this subject has been flying round in my (almost empty!) head!

I am so pleased that you see my post as 'concern' rather than 'criticism' - as it could have been interpreted as that by lesser people than yourself.

Lets just go back a few steps, metaphorically. Who downloads and uses the free (up to now) files? What do they use them for?

I would think that the majority are rather like myself, who 'mess' with them, and either sing along with them (like you, I can't hold a note!), or like me, totally re-mixes them, adds a new 'lead' in the keyboard/arranger, and saves the files in their midi collection.

Now then, there are others, (Mainly Guitar players and Singers) who are using these files as backing trax for their paid stage work. (All due respect to you guys!). These are the ones, in a fair world, who should be paying for their .mids from here that they use. But how can you define who is who, and who is using what for what ... Impossible!!


When I multi-track, or sequence a new song, rather than start from 'scratch' I look around the net and here for a .mid that sounds fairly reasonable, and then re-mix, add and delete tracks, panning, EQ, Etc. This saves a lot of 'ground work! I then save the .mid to my collection, and one day, hopefully, a pub/club singer will call and ask for a backing for that song. He gets the 'original' complete. mid, to learn from, and also the .mid, with the lead removed to use on stage. I charge £25 for 5 songs (10 trax), on a mini disk. With a bi-weekly Ad, which costs £85 in the NME, I used to make a fair few bob, but lately, due to the decline in Pubs and Clubs, I will have to stop, as it isn't going as well as it used to.


My other thought is ... OK you charge a fee now for a years membership. I would expect that most people have downloaded already, all the songs in the archive that suit their taste or requirements, so they are just paying for whatever comes up as new each day/week/month, and - if my scenario is the same as others, there are only perhaps about 3 or 4 files a week, out of the 50 or so you post that I download, after listening to them. Different stuff for different people. If I had to pay for them, I would possibly only take one or two a week! So someone would pay 15 quid for about 100 songs a year. I suppose this isn't bad, when you consider I charge Singers £25 for 5 songs of their choice on a mini disc, but I think people are basically lazy, and if any effort is required, its a no-no.

May both Sunny and I wish you and 'The Team' every success, and I really do hope that this really is a step forward, and that, at the least you cover everything. As you say.... 'Lets wait and see!' If there is anything we can do to help, other than re-mortgage the house - we are always around, and ready to assist. You have our Email.

Tony

[larryc]

I would like to thank Glenn for all the work and expense he has put into this site,
I think its only fair we as members should help a little, to be honest £10.50 is very little for the vast amount of excellent files and also the help available on site.
a sandwich and a pint costs £10.50.
once again thanks Glenn.
Larry (larryc)

(I had to modify this I originally wrote 20 f .a .g .s . and a pint, It was changed to 20 gays and a pint cost £10.50 rlmao ;D ;D)

[Tone_Deff (Musicmaker)]

larryc said:

(I had to modify this I originally wrote 20 f .a .g .s . and a pint, It was changed to 20 gays and a pint cost £10.50 rlmao ;D ;D)

Thats a 'cracker' Larry! I have had several similar experiences on this and other Fora, with the 'swear word stopper' in the board software.

Tony

[Stephanie]

I wish there was a better way. I run a website or two (not music-related) and like Glenn foot most of the bill myself. I own the servers and pay for bandwidth myself. We have a few paying members and that helps offset the expenses, but they're definitely a labour of love.

The comments about switching to paid access decimating your hitrate and not producing the income you'd hoped for ring all too true.

Perhaps a model like the iTunes store might work, where you open an account with a dollar amount and charge per download? That way, packrats who download everything pay more for being indiscriminate than those who download selectively.

Not sure how you'd keep it straight in your visitors' minds that you're charging for the connection, not for the actual midi.

[midimart]

Hi Larryc - F.A.G.S. is a rude word in the us and describes homosexual men....

But you could have put Cigs or Cigarettes...

Thanks for the comments from all of you, I do listen to everyone.

Up to now, I have seen NO change in the hits or downloads as from a month ago.... Like larryc said £10.50 is not a lot, but many site visitors are paying £15.50 - I thought the price difference would encourage more Forum Members....

Early days yet.

[rosybud1956]

I'm confused. If a midi is uploaded in the Request File area, will forum members be able to access that file without having to pay the new fee? My financial predicament is not so hot however I can at times help members out with requested files and I've had some incredible help from members too. I have become very addicted to the forum and I'm not looking forward to the 'withdrawals' if I can't afford to pay the yearly fee to have access to the midis I might request. Gee I hope I'm only confused.

[pmalcolm]

From what I understand, the forum is FREE to join. There is no charge for the forum at all. The charge is for membership to the main site only. Anything posted on the forum is accesible for free to all AAA members alike. All you have to do to retain AAA membership status is to post at least one message per month except in the request area which doesn't count. If I'm wrong I know I'll soon get told!

[midimart]

Yes rosybud....

ALL uploaded midi files in the request area will remain FREE from all membership fees...

Only files on the main site will come under this category....

Request a file, if it is posted - you can download it without being a member....

Files sent directly to MidiMart for publication are put directly on to the main server and site, although AAA members can obtain them here first....

Confused - Not any more...!!

[rosybud1956]

Thanks Glen. That is wonderful news. I just love the site and will help out wherever possible if I have midis members are after.

[Tone_Deff (Musicmaker)]

Hi Team,

I have been offline (new ISP being set up!), for the last few (phew!) days.

This is great news - in that the Forum will stay as it was. I too will help wherever possible, and in any way that will further this Forums level of activity.

Little Suggestion?? - Could we have a 'spot' somewhere where we can provide a link to midi's that we upload to 'Host Sites'.

Reason? -well, the Host Sites are free (Like 'Box.com') for all members to join, or access, and those of us with midi's to share (including for Glenns use on the Midi Site), the files could stay there for Forum Members to access, for - say - one month, and it would not be any additional bandwidth on Glenns server!

Example... Anyone want Amorillo?(The Minivec one! - Its just an example!)) ... Download it from here -

www.4shared.com/file/13097206/d698b3e5/Amorillo2.html

(I use '4 Shared', by the way!)

Regards,

Tony

[Emerald Midi]

Little Suggestion?? - Could we have a 'spot' somewhere where we can provide a link to midi's that we upload to 'Host Sites'.

A place where members can share files they found on the Net is not a bad idea.

I'll get back to you on this.

PS, this should have been posted in the suggestions section

[Steptoe]

admin said:

Little Suggestion?? - Could we have a 'spot' somewhere where we can provide a link to midi's that we upload to 'Host Sites'.

A place where members can share files they found on the Net is not a bad idea.

I'll get back to you on this.

PS, this should have been posted in the suggestions section

I had a thought some time ago (stop laughing!) that all the requests filled should or could be loaded to a seperate site, making it easier to search through.

I originally put " stop s n i g g e r i n g" and it come out as "sblack personing"

[gspro]

I have 15 websites addresses that I can register available to me with unlimited space at a flat fee. I'm already paying quaterly and I am not using any of it at the moment. Why? I don't know anything about web programming. I did some shopping around about web design and it can be quite expensive so, I'm going back in the music biz 4 days a week and eventually pay for it that way. So if it's about space, bandwidth or whatever, not a problem.

Glenn, no offense to any members of this forum. I just like contributing but, since you are the proprietor and owner of this site I/we need your input/suggestions

[midimart]

I have no problem in members posting midi tracks exclusive to the midimart forum to download, but I will point out that no track that is listed on the main site should be posted and again NO (Commercial) COPYRIGHT material is to be posted....

Pat and myself, along with the staff will have a think how this can be implemented.

Watch this space....