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Post by shezza on Mar 23, 2008 14:53:56 GMT
Hi All, Well I suppose it had got to happen sooner or later.
Picture this.......All set up at a gig last night all the led's working on the mixer but No sound coming from the pa!!!!!!!!! I checked everything I could think of, even took the top off the amp to see if there was a fuse inside that had blown. The only thing that I could do was to apologies to the owner of the venue, pack up and go home.
I know some might say that I should carry a spare but how many spare's does one carry, And this is the first time since 1967 that anything like this has happened to me.
Anyway on arriving home I tested everything again but the pa was still dead
Just by chance I pulled out the XLR cables that connect the mixer to the amp and replaced them with normal 1/4" jack cables, guess what it works!!! WHAT on earth has happened to stop it working all of a sudden with XLR's but work with normal 1/4" jack's, because on looking inside the amp and the mixer the XLR and 1/4" are connected to the same PC board. Any suggestions. Also according to the amp and mixer manual the XLR socket are balanced and the 1/4" un-balanced what difference does this make.
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Post by thingyy on Mar 23, 2008 23:51:15 GMT
Check the cable first.
You need to work out things a little better . If the amps lights were on or not. Does a mike work directly into the PA. etc etc.
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Post by Steptoe on Mar 24, 2008 1:18:36 GMT
I'd also be looking at the cables, perhaps one of the connections in the XLR plug has come loose....
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Post by Emerald Midi on Mar 24, 2008 8:48:21 GMT
It is terrible when something like this happens, and is one of the reasons I have a back up amp. Whatever the reason yours stopped working, even temporarily, it is an unfortunate experience to go through. Hope it never happens to you again.
By the way, I have a Yamaha 1000 Wat amp and on the front (right hand side) there's a small switch that slides/flicks down and when this happens one of the speakers will stop working, that is until I start twisting the monitor knob. This is handy for sending out a stereo signal or I wish to have the bass bins working totally independently.
Perhaps you too have a switch like this and accidentally flicked it.
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Post by shyamwestwind on Mar 24, 2008 9:28:40 GMT
Shezza, that really must have been a bad time for you. These cables need to be checked on gig free days. Dry solders,frayed wires, twisted cables all contribute to mishaps such as yours. I dont think your XLR sockets to the PC boards either ijn the mixer or amp could have misbehaved, most unlikely.
Using powered speakers can always save the situation at times like these because you can always use one of them if the other has a problem.
I hope you never face a situation like that ever again ..... it can really be embarassing and depressing.
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Post by shezza on Mar 24, 2008 16:25:03 GMT
Hi All, Well had a bit more time to check things out.
Turns out that both XLR cables are at fault, I have tried out a mike cable and all's well. So whats the chances of the two offending XLR's breaking down at the same time!!
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Post by shyamwestwind on Mar 24, 2008 17:19:07 GMT
Murphy's Law, my dear Watson !!!!!!! If anything can go wrong , it will !!
Think about powered speakers, Shezza, you wont lose any gigs and you wont lose peace of mind !! However, the basic need is routine maintenance and theres no getting around that. Its actually nice sitting at home leisurely and cleaning up all the equipment, checking cables and storing them away neatly.
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Post by charlie on Mar 24, 2008 22:04:19 GMT
Yeah...that sort of thing has happened to us at least once. What I did to help me sort out sound problems was to make a signal path map and mount it in my amp rack. This helps me to trace out the circuits qyuickly. When I am under the pressure to find a problem, that little signal map comes in real handy, especially if during a rushed set-up, a cord was put into the wrong jack. In your situation with (2) bad XLR cables, it wouldn't have hepled so much, but the rule is always carry spare cables. I have a crate dedicated to just that. That way, I have a back up cable for every cable needed to make the PA run. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Charlie
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Post by thingyy on Mar 25, 2008 0:52:38 GMT
I always carry a spare PA amp,fuses,soldering iron,patch leads, multi-meter and tool bag.
If you are not too technically minded you may need to make up trouble shooting flow charts.
You should always have a plan B for a quick fix.
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gibbo
Full Member
I'm not lost, I followed you home
Posts: 674
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Post by gibbo on Mar 25, 2008 3:50:35 GMT
Yep, I'm with you, thingyy, I carry exactly the same including a duplicate set of EVERY lead.
This stuff just stays in the car unless required and so far, touch wood, I've never needed it.
I also do a full strip down and check of everything every 6 months when I test and tag all the 240v electrical gear.
Shezza, you should do a full check-out on how all your gear connects (plus alternative connections if something dies) and how it all works in general, you'll probably never need it again but there's a definite peace-of-mind that comes from having all the bases covered.
Cheers, Dave.
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Post by Tubbs on Mar 25, 2008 17:51:11 GMT
I always carry a spare PA amp,fuses,soldering iron,patch leads, multi-meter and tool bag. If you are not too technically minded you may need to make up trouble shooting flow charts. You should always have a plan B for a quick fix. That is being prepared thingy!! You could of been the 5th member of The A Team!! (lol). ;D ;D |
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Post by rossi on Mar 27, 2008 10:36:59 GMT
Shezza,
The odds against two XLR cables breaking down at the same time? Probably massive.
I remember my driving side electric window on the car once failed to return to its closed position once. All I could hear was a grinding sound in the door. I booked it into the garage for repair the next day. On the way to the garage I pushed the button for the offside electric window to operate and low and behold that malfunctioned as well.
Now, both these windows had been operating with sometimes two people in the car and sometimes with just myself, so there is no way that both had been used exactly the same amount of times. The odds against that? Again probably massive.
It probably means Shezza, that you and me have possibly used up one of our quotas of incredible odds scenarios...so the big lottery win is looking a bit "iffy."
Cheers,
Rossi. (On a serious note, I'm glad you found the problem, and may I say I always carry a bundle of spares tucked neatly away in the boot of the car.)
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Post by moonie on Mar 27, 2008 13:09:02 GMT
Ouch! That's shocking bad luck...I had to laugh [not at you!] but because it reminded me of the night a frying pan fell off the wall and landed on my guitar breaking a machine head clean off and then bounced onto the mixing desk and cracked the circuit board...we went from 12 chanels to two but finished the gig with vocal only [no fx either]. SOmetimes no amount of prep can help!
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gibbo
Full Member
I'm not lost, I followed you home
Posts: 674
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Post by gibbo on Mar 27, 2008 15:20:43 GMT
A frying pan fell off the wall? What the... ? Must've been an Irish pub somewhere in Perth!
Reminds me of Molly Malone's in Sydney where they used to have a bloody great dray (I think it's called a Jaunting Cart or something similar?) suspended 10 feet above the main stage.
Every time I played there I had an overwhelming urge to check out all the suspension wires before we started.
Maybe we need a new thread about whacky things that we've encountered at gigs... I'll start one now in Chit Chat.
Cheers, Dave.
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Post by JohnG on Apr 2, 2008 13:10:40 GMT
One other thought for you is to get a cable tester.
This usually has plug and socket (or if your feeling that way inclined, male and female) connectors to allow you to plug in and test your cables. I bought the Behringer CT100 a while back as I regularly make my own cables like a lot of people here. It lets me test not just that I've got good joints but that there are no whiskers of wire providing short circuits etc. It's a constant companion in the gig toolbox. Don't forget the spare batteries too! Gives XLR m to f or to TS and TRS. 1/8 inch, MIDI, phono (RCA) connectors, but no Speakon.
Worth its weight in cupro-nickel.
Just a thought,
JohnG.
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Post by shyamwestwind on Apr 2, 2008 17:25:14 GMT
Oh yes, JohnG, I have an old faithful Peavey Cable tester too, which goes in my cable bag. Your Behringer CT100 looks more sophisticated !
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JazzCat
Full Member
E=Fb Musician's Theory of Relativity
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Post by JazzCat on Apr 3, 2008 2:11:01 GMT
I have the SM Pro Audio CT-2 cable tester. Lots of different photos of different angles here: www.zzounds.com/item--STOCT2It tests Speakon, XLR, RCA, BNC, SNC, TRS-jack, Banana, CMX (5 pin XLR), & DIN (MIDI). It also can cross test cables with ends that don't match, like XLR to TRS phono plug. Plus, it has leads for testing any kind of cable cable end that isn't included on the box itself. I don't carry a 'fix it' kit with me on local gigs because time usually doesn't allow for an on the spot fix. Swapping a bad cable is much faster. It was very different when I was on the road. Then I ALWAYS had my kit with me. I started out without a tester of any kind but bought a simple but useful one, and eventually gave it to my partner. It's a long story how I wound up being the 'fix it gal' for this particular duo I was in. Now I have my fancy lil tester and do repairs at home. Cat >^..^< |
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Post by JohnG on Apr 3, 2008 7:08:05 GMT
That looks a cool little tester Jazzcat, and not expensive either. I don't know the Peavey one Shyam but any cable tester has got to be worth carrying in the toolkit.
The CT100 as well as testing any of the plug types to any other (XLR, 1/4, 1/8, TT, RCA & MIDI) (marked one side as "in" and the other "out") will also test with cables in-situ and can send out a test tone(440Hz or 1KHz) and the signal level can be adjusted through -4dBu, -10dBV and -50dBV (mic). It can test for the presence of phantom power, whether the XLR shield is grounded, and it even looks for intermittent connections too! It has a little matrix of LEDs which show the connections of pins 1, 2 & 3 and / or tip, ring & sleeve. It really is a clever little box. Runs off 2 AA batteries which are always cheap and easy to find. It even has a little metal belt clip!!!
The only serious drawback IMHO is that it doesn't support Speakons but as I don't use them it makes it the "perfect tester" for me. I guess if I needed that then I'd knock up a pair of Speakon patch leads. I'm no fan of Behringer stuff normally but this one is "a real cracker".
Best regards,
JohnG.
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Post by paulo on Apr 23, 2008 20:36:43 GMT
Yep !! Note to self .Must get a cable tester.
Seriously good idea saves time spent pulling apart leads.
About the idea of going for powered speakers for more reliability I duuno.A powered speaker goes down on you (DON'T TITTER) thats it done.At least with a decent power amp you could link one side off the other if a channel gave up.
Also it would be cheaper to carry a spare power amp (and take up less room)than a spare powered speaker!!
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