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Post by geraint on Mar 6, 2009 6:27:27 GMT
It is very heartening to read so many positive responses in relation to the current situation.
This Forum has grown into what is undoubtedly, a close knit community of like minded musicans, and long may it continue to do so.
I am proud to be an Administrator of this Forum, and will do all I can to ensure its future success.
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Post by JohnG on Mar 6, 2009 7:49:27 GMT
Shyam my friend, Hi Everyone, I didn't realize that the subject in question was aired in the Forum , so I sent a PM to Pat, expressing my anguish at this unfortunate turn of events. I am truly, saddened and upset , learning about these infringements but I feel more hurt than wronged. I always felt Glenn was a honourable man and I was of the opinion that he was looking into the copyright issues and would settle all the issues soon. I am curious as to why Glenn hasn't responded to all this and why he is keeping mum ? We do deserve a response from him. I am not concerned about the fees paid to him , but I will feel hurt if he doesn't say something for himself. You are so right, and I think I speak for all the people who have been involved with this, we are all deeply saddened by the news. The final steps that have been taken are only because of the lack of response from Glenn. Just to put everyone in the picture, JazzCat first contacted me about her initial devastating discovery in September last year. During the time since then much has gone on behind the scenes. We very much did not want the whole thing publicly aired until we understood whether it was just a couple of bad files that had crept in. However, the more that was looked at, the more that was uncovered. I am not going to publish the reams of mails that were exchanged between the people involved, the team (as it has been called) and to and from Pat and including the forum administrators and, of course, some to and from Glenn. My last mail to him still goes unanswered. The decision was taken to remove Glenn as administrator after he failed to answer, BUT to leave his membership of the forum intact. As of a few minutes ago I see he is still a member. The decision to leave his membership intact was to allow him every opportunity to respond to the allegations. To date he has failed to do so. You must ask yourself why. All he has to do is come over here and explain how so many commercially copyright files have found their way onto the MidiMart main site. The site which is his responsibility. I share your views and would very much like Glenn to respond. I am dead against a "witch hunt" and have no wish for a public lynching of him. But the silence is deafening, Shyam! People will naturally draw their own conclusions. But conclusions are not proof. I hope this helps, Your friend, JohnG. |
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Post by Emerald Midi on Mar 6, 2009 8:39:45 GMT
Hi Pat /Jazz /JohnG ,i am very shocked!! as for years Glenn always insisted that all files must not have any copyrights on them,when we sent them in!! i know i sent in thousands!!!! including .kar files (which were never put on site).I have no way of looking for copyright stamps etc,so left it up to Glenn to check!! i Know many of us felt when Glenn introduced the membership fee!! we were not very comfortable with it,as we all contributed quite a lot of files,and felt we were paying for our own!! I truly hope,this fine forum will grow in strength from this!!,and the many fine bonds of friendship forged over many years will continue!!.If it was not for this Forum,and one very special friend!! i would not be singing now,or even playing the keyboard!!.So i say to you all,do not despair!! everyone here is a friend!! we are all musicians!! and a finer bunch you will never find anywhere!!! best wishes...............Steve Thank you Steve for your comments and your continued support. You are another example of just how wonderful a membership we have on the forum. |
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Post by Steptoe on Mar 6, 2009 12:22:34 GMT
I am truly, saddened and upset , learning about these infringements but I feel more hurt than wronged. Shyam, I think you echo the sentiments of many of the members here! John |
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Post by weegeo on Mar 6, 2009 12:42:28 GMT
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Post by weegeo on Mar 6, 2009 12:52:26 GMT
Further to my above post i have just pm`d Glenn and invited him to make a statement to all the members off the forum, like you i await with interest
weegeo
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Post by handsonmidi on Mar 6, 2009 13:03:05 GMT
I'd like to say a big thank you (and a special thank you to Cat) regarding Mr Humber. Contrary to many beliefs I don't drive a ferrari (it's a Vauxhall!) and am not a millionaire. We (I) spend a considerable amount of time (on averge 3 days per song) programming songs and to get them ripped off this way is quite sickening. Hands On have a good loyal customer base and we hope to be around for quite sometime, so if ever you need that 'special' midi file :-). Regards to all. Dave Clackett
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Post by Emerald Midi on Mar 6, 2009 13:45:33 GMT
I'd like to say a big thank you (and a special thank you to Cat) regarding Mr Humber. Contrary to many beliefs I don't drive a ferrari (it's a Vauxhall!) and am not a millionaire. We (I) spend a considerable amount of time (on averge 3 days per song) programming songs and to get them ripped off this way is quite sickening. Hands On have a good loyal customer base and we hope to be around for quite sometime, so if ever you need that 'special' midi file :-). Regards to all. Dave Clackett Hi Dave, good to see you on here and thank you for your comments. Some, those who do not sequence files in a professional sense, have any real understanding of just what is entailed in the process and how much personal effort goes into making them. i am not a sequencer myself but I have many friends who are and they all tell me how long it can take to produce decent Midi files. |
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Post by JohnG on Mar 6, 2009 15:32:10 GMT
My my! That couldn't be the Dave Clackett of the "Handbook of MIDI Sequencing" could it? I have a copy here with me. It took a while to find it, but eventually I tracked down a discarded and much thumbed copy from Leeds library and Information Services via an Amazon book seller. I bet there are a few more grey hairs in reality than on the picture on the back?  There certainly are on mine since 1996! Talented author and producer of MIDI files, lang may yer lum reek! (Bet I got that wrong!) "Simply the best"! Whilst we have you around could you check my post and confirm what I have said about copyright please? Many thanks. Best regards, JohnG. |
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Post by Emerald Midi on Mar 6, 2009 18:24:03 GMT
Hi Everyone, I didn't realize that the subject in question was aired in the Forum , so I sent a PM to Pat, expressing my anguish at this unfortunate turn of events. I am truly, saddened and upset , learning about these infringements but I feel more hurt than wronged. I always felt Glenn was a honourable man and I was of the opinion that he was looking into the copyright issues and would settle all the issues soon. I am curious as to why Glenn hasn't responded to all this and why he is keeping mum ? We do deserve a response from him. I am not concerned about the fees paid to him , but I will feel hurt if he doesn't say something for himself I am, bascaly, a singer, who, simply and honestly, just loves to sing and be happy and make others happy and, very truthfully, am not involved in searching for copyrighted material to accompany me. I will and can sing with whatever sequences or accompaniment tracks that sound good to me and it doesn't matter how perfect or close to the original they are. I guess I'm more of a singer than a creaive musician . I am very happy that our Forum is still a family. We are such a lovable bunch of mature musicians,who are sensitised to the world. We have the maturity and ability to discuss and argue and share our views, and I do wish to hear Glenn talk for himself. We don't need to trample on him without knowing his responses. Shyam, thank you firstly for your comments. Glenn's lack of an adiquate response is of no surprise to those of us who have been trying to deal with him behind the scenes. It is this same couldn't care less attitude that prompted us to go public with the findings - this whole thing has been going on since well before Christmas, last September, in fact. So, as can be seen it isn't as if this has all just happened and we are being unfair to Glenn. Glenn was asked to provide just 10 or 15 of files he personally sequenced out of the 7000 + files on his website for comparison purposes, but this he failed to do. In fact, he hasn't provided even one. And let's not forget the many 1000s of honest, decent law-abiding people who paid to access these files in good faith thinking they were getting the genuine article. Glenn is still a member of this forum and is very welcome to respond to any comments he feels to be unjust or unfair.Anyone remember Paul H? He originally brought something like this up about two years ago but unfortunately went the wrong way about it; back then we all believed Glenn's account and ridiculed Paul because we couldn't see what he and others were seeing. Paul lacked the evidence and the skills required at the time to get his finding across but the least we can now do is admit that he was on to something. I mention this to demonstrate just how long this has been going on. |
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Post by Tubbs on Mar 6, 2009 19:37:48 GMT
My question now is:- Will we be able to set up a midi access thread again where we can have access to good shared files we may find and wish to share? I will contribute where possible. I could never understand why forum members were not given free access to any 'Non MM' midi files that were available. Cheers Lyn Hi lyn, i brought this up with Glenn a few times as i found it unfair, i stated to him that members should be allowed to request files whether he had them on the main site or not, i am sure that from now on their is no problem regards the sharing of files among members (once they are non-copyright). I had been championing the cause for a while with him. |
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Post by Emerald Midi on Mar 6, 2009 20:15:07 GMT
My question now is:- Will we be able to set up a midi access thread again where we can have access to good shared files we may find and wish to share? I will contribute where possible. I could never understand why forum members were not given free access to any 'Non MM' midi files that were available. Cheers Lyn Hi lyn, i brought this up with Glenn a few times as i found it unfair, i stated to him that members should be allowed to request files whether he had them on the main site or not, i am sure that from now on their is no problem regards the sharing of files among members (once they are non-copyright). I had been championing the cause for a while with him. Well said, Gerry. And just to reiterate that this forum will continue as normal despite this set back; to mirror Geraint's and others remarks we have a fabulous bunch of people and as long as they want a place to discuss and exchange ideas on all things midi and beyone this place will always be there - in one shape or another.  |
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Post by thingyy on Mar 6, 2009 21:46:14 GMT
Maybe the "gestapo" should invite Midi Magic,Bandtrax,Trycho and all the rest to join the forum.
Get them to check the midi site links and our request filled section and see how many others are floating in Cyberspace.
I guess that's all folks.Yibby Yibeda.
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JazzCat
Full Member
E=Fb Musician's Theory of Relativity
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Post by JazzCat on Mar 6, 2009 21:46:52 GMT
Glenn was asked to provide just 10 or 15 of files he personally sequenced out of the 7000 + files on his website for comparison purposes, but this he failed to do. In fact, he hasn't provided even one. That is correct. His 'excuse' for this was his claim that he and his 'team' went into the studio and laid down tracks, so he can't remember which tracks he did and which he didn't. Well, that statement is completely and utterly contradicted with what he says right on the front page of his website, and I quote: "I have used the Edirol SD-80, Roland Sound Canvas SC55, and Cubase to sequence these midi files." The above statement also contradicts his multiple postings, on the forum and through PMs, that there is/was a 'team' of sequencers. I too am waiting to see Glenn come forward PUBLICLY and make an attempt at defending himself. He says he's innocent of wrong doing. Well, it's more than time to step forward and disprove the allegations that have been brought forth. |
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bri
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Post by bri on Mar 6, 2009 21:53:00 GMT
Hi again all I thought something was a bit off when I hadn't seen anything from Glenn for quite some time on the forum. After all, he used to be on here all the time, so naturally I thought, where did he go? As I also said in my previous post, I have uploaded my own files (not many) rather than downloading them from midimart, even though I paid my fee to be a member. The last file I sent (One Way Ticket) was not put onto the site and so I ended up just posting the link to it onto the forum. That was the point at which I started to ask myself, has Glenn lost interest? But ah but ah but ah. I now ask what about b4 the fee was charged to download midifiles? Last July I paid my £10.50 fee. The previous July I paid £10. Both amounts were for nothing, considering all the files that were available. Someone said the fee is now £15. Still for nothing. I know this sounds like I am condoning what Glenn is alleged to be doing...please believe me, I'm not. My question is, b4 this time, as far as I know the files were free to download. So where was Glenn deriving any sort of profit from this? Fair enough, yes, with a few hundred - even thousand - members all paying fees, he may now be doing ok for himself, but what about those early days when everything was free? I don't get it. Did greed finally get the upper hand - even if what he was doing b4 charging a fee was illegal (allegedly)? Hope this all makes sense...had a few cans. Take care Bri ps Cat... does your post mentioning the Jazz Sequencer mean that it is rubbish? I downloaded it, but have never tried to use it. I'm all for freebies and a lot of them have turned out to be wonderful (Kristal...ok, sorry guys) and I save some freebies just in case....... Should I then get rid of the Jazz Sequencer?  |
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Post by mikemac4344 on Mar 7, 2009 0:55:13 GMT
Maybe the "gestapo" should invite Midi Magic,Bandtrax,Trycho and all the rest to join the forum. Get them to check the midi site links and our request filled section and see how many others are floating in Cyberspace. I guess that's all folks.Yibby Yibeda. As I've said a couple of times here, I think that we need to police ourselves. There have been months of effort here in trying to handle this as quietly as possible. No one wanted things to go down this way and, with all due respect, the Gestapo comment is over the top...especially about people who've expended so much effort over the years trying to prevent fellow musicians and MIDI enthusiasts from being exposed to a litigation threat that is very real. |
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Post by Tone_Deff (Musicmaker) on Mar 7, 2009 0:55:28 GMT
Firstly, thank you 'Admin' for your Email - which has brought me 'back to the fold' !!
I abandoned my connections with the site, as like others, I was contributing my midi files (that were played and recorded as .mids, rather than sequenced, on my keyboard). I certainly objected to people paying for these, when they had been freely given.
I followed 'The Two Pauls' to the 'Free For All' midi site. Subsequently Paul Malcolm fell out with Paul Harrison, and took over the site. It was never really much of a success, and closed down and relocated to another members site (Crafty Music'), and is running at present, with about 25 or so members. I could relate a lot more of the 'Ins and Outs', but the forgoing is a brief precis of what I believe is correct.
A year or more ago, Paul Malcolm and I discussed Glenns integrity, and the fact that he was plagarising mids as his own, and questioned his ability to even produce a midi file!
I no longer am in touch with either Paul, and in fact, started my own 'Keyboard Players Forum', where about 60 'Players' and producers of music could exchange their music - we have some very talented performers, who post both .mids and Mp3's of their music. I decided to make it a 'locked' Forum, mainly because of copyright issues. Several members on this forum are also members of mine.
The mids come off our keyboards with mainly Yamaha voices and for those without a Yamaha keyboard with Mega, Live, Sweet and Super Articulated samples, they will sound rubbish, but there is a program that will convert them to XG, and then they need balancing again. (It is a free program called Midi Player, by Michael Bedesem). OK - its a bit of a fiddle to make XG files from what we musicians produce, but at least they are good, and they are UNIQUE !!
MP3 or .mid? I like to have both - the Mp3 lets you hear the music as it sounded at the originators studio, but is wide open to plagarism, as nothing can be checked. The .mid lets you see inside the file - what instruments were used, etc - but more importantly, one can 'mess' with it. I can put someone elses .mid into my keyboard, and totally edit it to my liking, changing track volumes, panning, instruments, etc - even re-playing odd tracks. If ever I sequence (rather than play) a song, I must be honest, I find the mid on the net, and if the drums and bass, or even one or two of the tracks are OK, then I re-do it, which is easier than starting from 'scratch.
Copyright! As I see it, whenever you create a .mid of a song, which is written by someone else, and publish it - you are in breach of the composers copyright, so how can you, as a creator of a .mid of that song copyright it ? ? .... When you put your name and 'copyright' in the file ... have you genuinely copyrighted it? - or have you just written that into the file? If so - it means nothing!
Copyright law says that as long as you've recorded your work (on paper or any sort of other media) then it is your copyright. The main problem is of course proving that you're the one who did the work.
Many people use what's called the "Poor Man's Copyright": They burn their composition onto a CD and send it to themselves in the mail. Unfortunately nowadays it's easy to fake and wouldn't hold up as legal evidence.
So how can you protect your work?
I know of one way, perhaps other people know of others:
I use a Solicitor (Notary in US). Everything I work on - whether it's a finished song, lyrics or production gets catalogued and burned onto a CD (lyrics are printed out) and sent regularly in a package to a Solicitor who then seals it and keeps it in a safe. I receive a legal document stating the date that he received the material and if anyone ever tried to steal my work, I have proof that would hold up in any court that I am the originator of the work. If it ever came to a legal argument, I would be able to let the court have access to the material I protected.
It's unfortunate that something like that is necessary, but it's better to be safe than sorry. If anyone happens to know of a better, simpler way, please let me know.
Just some rambling thoughts from an old fart - who incidentally is 73 today!
Good luck to the new 'Admin' Team, I hope you go from strength to strength, you deserve success.
Kind regards, from
Musicmaker (AKA 'Tone Def' Tony) or even John
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JazzCat
Full Member
E=Fb Musician's Theory of Relativity
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Post by JazzCat on Mar 7, 2009 1:48:44 GMT
Hi Bri,
Yes, I'd get rid of the Jazz Sequencer, if it were me..... and I am. <smile> It's a very weak program, a very old program, and it doesn't even have an uninstaller. I couldn't get rid of it. I Installed it to help a member learn how to do a couple of things with it and the only way I could get rid of it was to do a restore on my system. Since then I've had a couple other people ask for some guidance with it and I've apologized saying I cant help as I've removed it from my system and I won't reinstall it and why.
As for the greed issue, I truly think as time went by, that is what happened. He started out with a donation button, and I know that there were people who donated, but apparently that simply wasn't enough for him.
He does make a substantial amount, considering how much he actually puts out for the maintenance of his website. Last thing a buddy of mine saw was about his web host was, assuming he has the base package, it's 55 £ a year. If he has the 5 gig package, then it's 99 £ per year. The 55 £ per year package has 2 gb of space and unlimited bandwidth. That seems adequate to me but even at 99 £, 7 sign-ups covers his hosting expenses. Of course, he needs to cover the salaries of his sequencing team as well. ( sarcasm at it's best! LOL!)
Think about it. 100 sign-ups at 15 £ = 1,500 £ The admins know he, at one time had, a lot more than that, and his paid memberships have done nothing but grow. He also automatically bills your credit card when your membership is about to expire, and he does that without informing the member first. How do I know this? I have had his members come complaining to me about it. So, I suggest you watch your credit card bills and inform your company to NOT allow another transfer to Glenn.
Also, Glenn quite quickly stopped posting on the boards, other than garbage about the main site, and announcing 'new files', after he began taking membership fees. Before that time he was quite active. The only difference in posting since the time he started charging admission was when Pat let him know I was going to contact him and why, he stopped posting 'new' file listings to the forum.
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Post by Emerald Midi on Mar 7, 2009 9:03:07 GMT
Firstly, thank you 'Admin' for your Email - which has brought me 'back to the fold' !! I abandoned my connections with the site, as like others, I was contributing my midi files (that were played and recorded as .mids, rather than sequenced, on my keyboard). I certainly objected to people paying for these, when they had been freely given. I followed 'The Two Pauls' to the 'Free For All' midi site. Subsequently Paul Malcolm fell out with Paul Harrison, and took over the site. It was never really much of a success, and closed down and relocated to another members site (Crafty Music'), and is running at present, with about 25 or so members. I could relate a lot more of the 'Ins and Outs', but the forgoing is a brief precis of what I believe is correct. A year or more ago, Paul Malcolm and I discussed Glenns integrity, and the fact that he was plagarising mids as his own, and questioned his ability to even produce a midi file! I no longer am in touch with either Paul, and in fact, started my own 'Keyboard Players Forum', where about 60 'Players' and producers of music could exchange their music - we have some very talented performers, who post both .mids and Mp3's of their music. I decided to make it a 'locked' Forum, mainly because of copyright issues. Several members on this forum are also members of mine. The mids come off our keyboards with mainly Yamaha voices and for those without a Yamaha keyboard with Mega, Live, Sweet and Super Articulated samples, they will sound rubbish, but there is a program that will convert them to XG, and then they need balancing again. (It is a free program called Midi Player, by Michael Bedesem). OK - its a bit of a fiddle to make XG files from what we musicians produce, but at least they are good, and they are UNIQUE !! MP3 or .mid? I like to have both - the Mp3 lets you hear the music as it sounded at the originators studio, but is wide open to plagarism, as nothing can be checked. The .mid lets you see inside the file - what instruments were used, etc - but more importantly, one can 'mess' with it. I can put someone elses .mid into my keyboard, and totally edit it to my liking, changing track volumes, panning, instruments, etc - even re-playing odd tracks. If ever I sequence (rather than play) a song, I must be honest, I find the mid on the net, and if the drums and bass, or even one or two of the tracks are OK, then I re-do it, which is easier than starting from 'scratch. Copyright! As I see it, whenever you create a .mid of a song, which is written by someone else, and publish it - you are in breach of the composers copyright, so how can you, as a creator of a .mid of that song copyright it ? ? .... When you put your name and 'copyright' in the file ... have you genuinely copyrighted it? - or have you just written that into the file? If so - it means nothing! Copyright law says that as long as you've recorded your work (on paper or any sort of other media) then it is your copyright. The main problem is of course proving that you're the one who did the work. Many people use what's called the "Poor Man's Copyright": They burn their composition onto a CD and send it to themselves in the mail. Unfortunately nowadays it's easy to fake and wouldn't hold up as legal evidence. So how can you protect your work? I know of one way, perhaps other people know of others: I use a Solicitor (Notary in US). Everything I work on - whether it's a finished song, lyrics or production gets catalogued and burned onto a CD (lyrics are printed out) and sent regularly in a package to a Solicitor who then seals it and keeps it in a safe. I receive a legal document stating the date that he received the material and if anyone ever tried to steal my work, I have proof that would hold up in any court that I am the originator of the work. If it ever came to a legal argument, I would be able to let the court have access to the material I protected. It's unfortunate that something like that is necessary, but it's better to be safe than sorry. If anyone happens to know of a better, simpler way, please let me know. Just some rambling thoughts from an old fart - who incidentally is 73 today! Good luck to the new 'Admin' Team, I hope you go from strength to strength, you deserve success. Kind regards, from Musicmaker (AKA 'Tone Def' Tony) or even John Now, I had wondered where you'd gone to Anyway, great to see you back on the forum and thank you for explaining things that went on all that time ago. Delighted to see you are still producing music and that your keyboard forum is doing so well. Thanks also for your very supportive comments. Happy birthday, by the way ;d |
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Post by Emerald Midi on Mar 7, 2009 9:08:08 GMT
Hi Bri, Yes, I'd get rid of the Jazz Sequencer, if it were me..... and I am. <smile> It's a very weak program, a very old program, and it doesn't even have an uninstaller. I couldn't get rid of it. I Installed it to help a member learn how to do a couple of things with it and the only way I could get rid of it was to do a restore on my system. Since then I've had a couple other people ask for some guidance with it and I've apologized saying I cant help as I've removed it from my system and I won't reinstall it and why. As for the greed issue, I truly think as time went by, that is what happened. He started out with a donation button, and I know that there were people who donated, but apparently that simply wasn't enough for him. He does make a substantial amount, considering how much he actually puts out for the maintenance of his website. Last thing a buddy of mine saw was about his web host was, assuming he has the base package, it's 55 £ a year. If he has the 5 gig package, then it's 99 £ per year. The 55 £ per year package has 2 gb of space and unlimited bandwidth. That seems adequate to me but even at 99 £, 7 sign-ups covers his hosting expenses. Of course, he needs to cover the salaries of his sequencing team as well. ( sarcasm at it's best! LOL!) Think about it. 100 sign-ups at 15 £ = 1,500 £ The admins know he, at one time had, a lot more than that, and his paid memberships have done nothing but grow. He also automatically bills your credit card when your membership is about to expire, and he does that without informing the member first. How do I know this? I have had his members come complaining to me about it. So, I suggest you watch your credit card bills and inform your company to NOT allow another transfer to Glenn. Also, Glenn quite quickly stopped posting on the boards, other than garbage about the main site, and announcing 'new files', after he began taking membership fees. Before that time he was quite active. The only difference in posting since the time he started charging admission was when Pat let him know I was going to contact him and why, he stopped posting 'new' file listings to the forum. Glenn use to supply us in the mod team with a list of all his new member's names. I was amazed by how many new ones were regularly joining. |
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There certainly are on mine since 1996!
