DISTORTION

[shyamwestwind]

I really need some advice on this and its bugging me no end !!!!
I have a Behringer Mixer UB 1832 FX and have been having problems with the Equaliser. About 10 minutes after turning it on theres a "motor boating" sound and it goes off when we switch off the EQ. I have had it hecked atleast five times by the service technicians, but of no avail. We manage without the EQ nowadays, but I note theres a distorted sound coming at times and, not suspecting the Mixer, I have changed the cables, switched channels, used an audio cable from the headphones out, changed the set of speakers etc etc. I even cussed up my poor little S 900, but NOW, I have this sneaky suspicion that it is after all, the Mixer.
The power supply at the hotels we play at are all stabilised, so what could lead to this kind of distortion ? Its not constantly there and I was wondering if theres some "open" condensor in the power supply section , causing this. The service guys said they checked but I dont trust them.
If anyone of you have faced this problem , do share some of your thoughts with me.
Thanks

[thingyy]

I would suggest you try a CD or cassette player thru the system as the problem may be the source.

[JohnG]

Shyam,
What do you expect? It's Behringer!
All these extra noises and distortion etc, are part of the "feature set" of a lot of Behringer gear!
I know a fair few people who have had to send Behringer gear back. And others, it has to be said who, when they get a good one, have had no problems at all. Am I being unfair?
Well, if you go across to the "sound on sound" forum I think you'll hear a lot worse.
Jo9hnG.

[shyamwestwind]

JohnG, I think Ill agree........ Behringer is getting to bug me, though the performance (when in good condition) was good.I had problems with their Cross Over too. I dont think I'll risk takiing this mixer along anywhere and am going to flog it fast.
Any suggestions for a new mixer...... 8 to 10 channels with EQ and Effects. How are the Mackies ?

[doricvision]

Hi Shyam ,In my experiences as an Audio Engineer years ago you are quite right to assume that a condenser is the culprit.The condenser is probably failing or there has been liquid in gression under a condenser tracking across the terminals. Two ways to find out if you fancy having a go yourself.
One,, open up the unit and gently heat the circuit board with a hairdrier if you can see any spillage.Depending on the liquid this is only a short term solution as corrosion will eventually occur
Two Get a can of freezer spray and whilst the unit is motorboating lightly spray each condenser until you find the one where the motorboating stops and change it.
I know that this sounds a bit drastic but I would have thought that the Engineers you consulted would have tried this methods already
Regards Bigmike

[levi2]

hi bigmike what is motorboating is it just a name for summit else

levi

[doricvision]

Hi Levi, its as it says on the label, the sound thro your speakers sounds just like a motorboat and depending where the fault lies it is usually not controllable by turning down the volume control
Regards Bigmike

[JohnG]

Hi Shyam,

It will of course depend on your budget. I get to use a Mackie DFX12 from time to time and it's not a bad fairly basic mixing desk. It looks like it's been built to withstand the rigours of gigging. 4 dedicated mic/line channels with phantom power + 2 more which can be used for mic/stereo inputs. 2 more stereo inputs. Low cuts on the 1st 4 mics. A couple of aux sends etc. plus an effects unit. Sorry I can't say what that's like as I use an outboard effects unit. A useless 5 band master EQ. Channel EQs are just hi and lo. A better Mackie deck IMO is the CFX12 but 2/3rds more expensive. I have heard the occasional report of problems with Mackie desks too but way, way less than Behringer.

Another one which has a reasonable reputation AFAIK is Yamaha. The MG 124CX may be good.

At another price level (like the Mackie CFX) is Soundcraft who again AFAIK have a reasonable reputation.

Of course others may have opinions too. And any deck that gets gigged tends to get abused a bit so will suffer failures.

The Mackie web site also has lots of articles on mixing which are not at all bad.

Hope that's of some use?
JohnG.

[shyamwestwind]

I was thinking of getting the Mackie CFX12 mk II - seems a good one and the layout seeems sinilar to the Behringer so it'll be a easy to handle. I did check the Sound craft bu I found only biggies there and though I had a SPIRIT once, I didn't like the external power supply. I'll check the Yamaha you suggested.
As for my Behringer, I think I'll be a liitle daring and open the unit to find out the culprit condenser, using the Freezer spray (if I can get one here ) However I have kinda lost trust in Behringer and I just might sell it for whatever it'll fetch. Thank you, Big Mike for the useful info.It sure feels safe with you . Do give me your opinion on the Mackie. Go it or not ?

By the way , JohnG whats AFAIK ??

[JohnG]

Hi Shyam,
AFAIK, AFAIK means "as far as I know".
I think the Yamaha mixers have external PSUs too (AFAIK ).
Virtually everything I have that has a Yammy label on it has an external PSU.
I've heard that the Mackie mixers are reasonable but not "top class".
The CFX mixers certainly look good on paper and the DFX I get to use seems okay.
I'd get some input from regular Mackie users though if I were you.
Have fun,
JohnG.

[shyamwestwind]

Woe is me !!!! The Mackie CFX12 mk II costs INR 38000 which works out to 450 Pound Sterling - WHEW thats a LOT and I wonder if its worth that much for a Duo.
The Yamaha MG 16/4 costs about 2/3rd of that, but I'll have to carry the power supply separately .
The DFX 12 costs half that of the CFX !!!
What I would like to get is the present Behringer with all its features, B U T with a different Brand Name and more reliability

[JohnG]

You won't get the same feature set for the same money by any other manufacturer I think. My local music store used to sell a brand I think was "Phonic" which was as cheap as Behringer. In their latest catalogue there's no sign of it, so I guess they've dropped it. That tells you something.

For a good construction quality mixer you inevitably pay more money. If you don't have a bundle of lolly then you have to work out which features are really essential/important to you.

When you say you're having problems with the EQ do you mean the final EQ or a particular channel EQ? If it's the final one then maybe an outboard EQ might solve the problem without having to junk the mixer?

Just a thought,
JohnG.

[axill]

I use a Dynacord powermate and find it reliable and very easy to use. It's also well built in a metal casing and has a cover to protect the sliders and eq etc.

[shyamwestwind]

Yes JohnG, I do have a separate EQ (Behringer ... again !!!!) but it means carrying another unit to gigs !! Before that I 'll need to sort out the distortion problem and I'm looking for that freeze spray that Big Mike talked about.

[Steptoe]

Hi Shyam

Don't count out Behringer just because they are cheap.
You obviously have a fault which could happen with any brand, maybe you should see if you can set up your PA for the amp tech and show him what is actually happening, it sounds as though you may be picking up radio frequency signals.

We have used a Behringer EUROPOWER PMH2000 (500 watts, 250 per side) in our duo since 2001 without a problem, one side ran FOH and the other side ran the foldback.
When we moved up to the full band we needed a bit more power so we bought a EUROPOWER PMP1280S which is 1200 watts to run FOH and used the older head to run the foldback.
To date we have never had a problem and have played some pretty big rooms.

Sure the Behringer is cheaply produced and it shows, but as long as it's treated carefully there's no reason why it shouldn't last.

A mate of mine was using a Mackie desk which died on him, in the meantime he bought a Behringer desk to keep him going, last time I spoke to him he was still using the Behringer desk!

One of the downsides of Behringer is I think they rate the wattage higher than it actually is.

Cheers
John

[thingyy]

So I guess you took my advise and prooved the fault is in the EQ after all.

[shyamwestwind]

I actually like the Behringer, guys and as John (Steptoe) said , any unit can have problems, but the fact is they dont have competent technicians to fix it. I had a Behringer Xover which gave me endless trouble and the dealer eventually replaced it with a new one. I still have a Behringer Equaliser which is working fine.
This Behringer Mixer of mine , EURORACK UB 1832 FX PRO,was purchased two years ago but the Master EQ behaved erratically right from then and I couldnt get a replacement as they had no stocks. We didnt feel the need to work the Master Eq as we managed pretty well with the Channel EQS which had a Mid Sweep and was crisp enough for us. We had so many gigs we couldn't give it for repairs. When we eventually did, (and its been {"seen to " about six times, and many ICs have been replaced, etc etc, the problem is still there.
With the Master EQ on, it will motorboat in five minutes !!! Lately, I notice that when the EQ is put on there's a hiss from one of the Stereo chanels.
I think if I wwre in any other country, Behringer would have fixed the problem, but I'm frustrated with their technicians here, who dont seem to know their a#@%se from their elbow about such things.
I loved the Behringer for its capabilities to bring out the kind of sound I want, but I feel let down at times like these.
I wonder if I should write directly to Mr.Behringer himself.

[thingyy]

Why not go to a Radio/TV repair technician rather than Behringer.It is only an audio system after all no big deal.

[JohnG]

Both Steptoe and Thingyy are right.

First thing is to sort out the current problem if you can. Any competent (please note the word competent) technician should be able to repair the unit. But if it's still under guarantee, then it's up to the dealer (at least here) to sort the problem. There is always a natural reluctance, as so much stuff is brought back with complaints of it not working when it's simply been incorrectly connected or the wrong button pressed or a mic plugged into a line input and other silly stuff. If it's under warranty then keep pressing the dealer to fix it or replace it. I don't know what the law is there but here if they cant fix it they must replace it. And the warranty from Thomann is 3 years.

The reason I answered the way I did was because it seemed you were fed up with the unit and wanted something new. For the money you will find it difficult to beat Behringer gear. As I said before, if you get a good piece of their gear, it can work well and go on for ages. The people I most often talk to tend to be more at the professional end. i.e. the equipment is used every day in theatres and so on. And most of them won't touch Behringer one or two of them admit to using their multi-channel equalisers or the DQ2496. But then they've usually got a budget of thousands of pounds or Euros, so can afford to spend a few thousand on a mixing desk. I don't and neither do most people here I suspect.

As Steptoe says, any unit can develop a fault, it's just that Behringer gear seems to develop more than it's fair share IMO. Maybe it's just because they're shipping several times more than all the other suppliers, dunno.

I think Behringer Watts are "music power" whereas many others quote RMS watts. Big difference.

Keep trying to get it repaired then Shyam. Take a big stick to your dealer with you. Or a gang of friends.

JohnG.

[moonie]

Sorry to butt in! Just my take on behringer gear...use it if you can work without it is my motto...ie if it's a required component (like a desk) use something else...an external eq or a drum gate use it if you want to...but remember every circuit your sound runs through affects your sound, so if I have an eq setting on a desk set flat then I would switch the circuit out.
The main difference between mixing desks to me other than features is the quality of the mic pre amps, between mackie yamaha and behringer I prefer yamaha's.

hope you find a solution soon!