Copyright Protection

[paulhcctt]

EDIT - A discussion arose in the request forum re copyright, all the posts have been moved here so the discussion can be continued.[/b][/color]




no offence guys.......

but these "Pro" files you talk of are sometimes so brutally bad, you wouldn't give them to your worst enemy.

you heard the "Pro" boo-boo i made with grace kelly......

paid Eur17.00 for it, and found a kicking version here for free.

i think that WE should run the pro shops and get rid of these brand-x stravinski's

[Steptoe]

No offence taken Paul.
Doesn't matter if the pro files are good, bad or indifferent the point is they are copyright protected

[paulhcctt]

a very fair & valid point.

although i wouldn't say that all these sites being MCPS or BMI registered are running to the harry fox agency with the royalties they SHOULD be paying, considering they are the ones who rightfully collect it.

i think i may have to consult a friend who works for IMRO and see what his view on it would be, he works in legalities for them.

on another note, does that mean that if i give someone one of Charlie Mclennan's files from oneoffmidi.co.uk, he can come over and i quote from his main page " * " cause serious damage to heads, groins, kneecaps, testicles, rectums etc....."*

If that's copyright protection, who needs enemies

[gregm]

Question guys,
If a midi should be very close to a copyrighted version in content but not the same exactly, ie varies by at least 30%, would that then be questionable?

Just Checkin

[paulhcctt]

30% is WAYYYYYYYYYYY off the mark.

but in thoery, how does it vary.

i can use 1 mouse click to change velocity + quantising, making it my version and rendering it unrecognisable against the original "Composers" (GAGS!!!)" version

i mean there's only 12 notes in music (Excludong 1/4 bends guitar-headz)

so therefore.... i create a song called "12 notes" next thing i have every artist, musician etc in the world suing me cause i used the same chord sequence, order etc.. for example "Tipperary on my mind" vs "Lonestar state of mind" EXACT SAME SONG!!!!! NOTE FOR NOTE!!! Did nancy griffith sue?
HELL NO!!!!!!

IMHO.. i think that if you can make it better and if you add extra that makes it stand out, then it should be deemed your work

[gooney]

Just a wee question. For example "star of county down" was requested and MidiMart posted a version by "One Off Midi" which is fine BUT when a member requested "On The One Road" i uploaded my file and it was removed right away due to copyright BUT it was by "One Off Midi"!!! Whats the difference in me uploading "One Off Midi" files and MidiMart uploading "One Off Midi" files and adding them to the main listings? Please dont take offence MidiMart,im just a bit confused on this topic.

[JazzCat]

I can guarantee that if Glenn uploaded any pro files to the mail listing he did it BY ACCIDENT!!!! He is VERY careful but shoot, anyone can make a mistake.
Heck, part of one of my posts was editied out because I had the nerve to say I wanted a certain professional company's version of a tune! LOL!!!!

---------
BTW the Pro companies pay what is called a mechanical licence to be able to sequence the tunes then offer them for sale. It is HFC who distributes royalties to the original creators of the tune.

[JazzCat]

IMHO.. i think that if you can make it better and if you add extra that makes it stand out, then it should be deemed your work
--------------------------

The problem with this thinking is, just who exactly makes the determination that the work is now yours? You? Me? A panel of so called experts? At what point in 'quality improvement' does the sequence become yours work? Is it decided by how many modifications you make or how many minutes you spent on the file? Is it decided by notation editing or by editing of dynamics??? What if some tone deaf wannabe edits the file and to his ears it sounds great but to mine the file has been ruined?? ( Been there, done that, BTW)


On purchasing rubbishpy pro files: Been there, done that too. If a company won't work with, me and tells me that its just my tough luck after I've purchase a lousy file then, they won't get my business again and I'll warn other people. In my opinion, customer service is a biggie. If I buy a rubbishpy file and a company apologizes and offers me a different version or even a free file of my choice to make up for it then, you can bet, they will have a customer for life! And, I'll spread the word about them.

[midimart]

For example "star of county down" was requested and MidiMart posted a version by "One Off Midi" which is fine BUT when a member requested "On The One Road" i uploaded my file and it was removed right away

Unfortunately, Cat is right yet again.... This error was brought to my attention by pmalcom (Global Moderator). If I miss something there are other mods on this Forum that will pick up on it.

My mistake, The file in question has now been removed. Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.

[lfc1892]

paulhcctt said:

no offence guys.......

but these "Pro" files you talk of are sometimes so brutally bad, you wouldn't give them to your worst enemy.

you heard the "Pro" boo-boo i made with grace kelly......

paid Eur17.00 for it, and found a kicking version here for free.

i think that WE should run the pro shops and get rid of these brand-x stravinski's

Paul

It doesn't matter if you found a free midi version of a song that was much better than a version you paid £17 for (I'm sure this is a very rare situation in any case) - the midi you paid for is copyright protected and it's wrong to distribute it across the internet without the owner's permission.

Charlie McLaren from One Off Midi has been doing great work for the midi community for years and I'm sure he'd be appalled to see his hard work and livelihood being damaged. I know this because I sequence and sell pro midis myself and one of them ended up on this site (Glenn was great in dealing with the situation when I brought it to his attention). But I can tell you it's a pretty sick feeling to see your hard work (and it IS hard work to produce a pro midifile) and property being hawked around by others.

If we all adopted the same attitude as yourself, pro sequencers wouldn't bother trying to make a livelihood out of midi and we'd all be stuck with rubbish backing tracks for our gigs.

John

[paulhcctt]

i'm sorry John, but i have to disagree with you there.

if a "Pro" sequencer decides that he is going to sell a shoddy piece of work to the general public, knowing that is of poor workmanship. he is therefore compromising my livelyhood against his own.

Therefore my thoery is, if i can contribute to a file, copyright as it may be (or not in the case), and make a vast improvement on it, i feel that it should be released into the public domain. i mean Charlie's version is his own, but if my version is more appealing to the public, i say bring on the programmers.

maybe i'm totally wrong about this, but i feel as both a consumer, and a musician, that if this option was open to me, i would choose the one that will greatly improve my performance.

In fact, i leave the option open to you to come along to one of my shows and see what i'm on about. i'll gl;adly show you the A/B comparisons

[guilty]

If the Pro files are that bad then I find that there's nothing to work with anyway and starting from scratch is an easier option. There seems to be good & bad files from both Pro's and amateur's. At the end of the day if we have a track that we can use, all is good. If you pay money for a Pro track and it is NO GOOD then ask for your money back and/or never use them again.

[pmalcolm]

guilty said:

If the Pro files are that bad then I find that there's nothing to work with anyway and starting from scratch is an easier option. There seems to be good & bad files from both Pro's and amateur's. At the end of the day if we have a track that we can use, all is good. If you pay money for a Pro track and it is NO GOOD then ask for your money back and/or never use them again.

If you ask for a replacement or a refund you should get or the or the other. I always have

[shyamwestwind]

Hi friends
All this discussion about copyrighted midis made interesting reading. Lots to think about I agree, but do check Talking Point in our forum and check the legalities of SINGING the cover versions.
Your opinions please.
With warm regards
Shyam

midimart.proboards56.com/index.cgi?board=talking&action=display&thread=1175549321

[EDIT] = I hope you don't mind Shyam but I have posted a link to your thread on copyright here.

[timpipmidi]

Maybe everybody needs to read this page. www.reach.net/~scherer/p/copyrit1.htm#d1 It explains copyright in music. Two things people seem to get mixed up are copyright and performance right.